Take the 2-minute tour ×
Science Fiction & Fantasy Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for science fiction and fantasy enthusiasts. It's 100% free, no registration required.

Since Grievous could not use the force, wouldn't a simple force push always eliminate the danger to a Jedi?

Note: unlike many of the other enemies of the Jedi, Grievous appears to have no weapons but his lightsabers, so he has to get up close and personal. (electrostaff is still a melee weapon)

Correction: he had a blaster as well

share|improve this question
4  
It's worth noting that Grievous almost was defeated by a force push, of sorts. The reason for his perpetual cough throughout Revenge of the Sith was that Mace Windu had force-crushed his exo-skeleton in Stars Wars: Clone Wars, damaging his internal organs. –  TenthJustice Jul 28 at 14:12
1  
Being a cyborg Grievous could literally steel himself against being pushed back and magnetically anchor himself in place. –  BMWurm Jul 28 at 14:17
7  
It's a poor question. The fact that they are able to use Force Push does not make them able to eliminate the danger from any non-Force User every time. –  phantom42 Jul 28 at 14:24
1  
What phantom42 said... Imagine a skilled bounty hunter being force pushed but still able to hold his aim at a Jedi and shoot while being pushed. One simple move isn't going to be able to defeat somebody who's obviously as skilled Grievous. –  DoctorWho22 Jul 28 at 14:26
2  
Just another example of the Force NOT being some ultra-powerful cure-all that makes them inherently stronger than non-Force-users. –  phantom42 Jul 28 at 14:43

2 Answers 2

Grievous

General Grievous was, among other things, an expert tactician. His grasp of strategy may not have been excellent, or it may have been hampered by the Separatist's real leadership, but he was indisputably a master tactician.

He was trained in lightsaber and electrostaff combat by some of the best in the Galaxy (notably Darth Tyranus) and his cybernetic body was capable of maneuvers that a typical humanoid couldn't do. It is also possible that his brain (which, if I recall, did have some cybernetic enhancement, and at least had some interface with his cybernetics) was divergent enough from 'standard' to mitigate the Jedi's mental tricks.

In short, he was as fast as a Jedi, he could see and process what he saw as fast as a Jedi, and he was at least as well trained as most Jedi in lightsaber combat.

The Jedi

Your typical Jedi Knight or Master during the Clone Wars era served as a General, or possibly in a support role. Jedi were too rare and valuable to serve as common troops, and there were no specialist Jedi platoons or companies. They typically served as the leadership and left the fighting to their troops. Some Jedi (notably Obi-wan and Anakin) were noted as leading from the front or taking it upon themselves to stage special operations against specific targets.

In an all-out assault, some Jedi would no doubt place themselves on the front lines - Mace Windo in particular was a Force powerhouse, capable of piling droids up like cordwood and knocking common battle droids over in windrows.

What the Clone Wars did not give Jedi much experience at is lightsaber combat. Sure, they primarily used their 'sabers against droids. That said, fighting droids with a lightsaber is primarily a matter of ranged defense. You move fast, using force-enhanced speed, block incoming bolts, close to melee range, and it's done. Even Super Battle Droids are trivial to destroy with a lightsaber - you just cut straight through. They can't block, then can't effectively strike you, and one or two blows will destroy them.

Droidekas, the shielded wheel droids, were a different matter: their shield was apparently proof against lightsabers, as evidenced by experienced combatants not charging at them. In those cases, Jedi typically had to avoid action and let the clones, often with specialized weapons, handle them.

MagnaGuard Droids

These droids, specifically designed by Grievous, were capable of going toe-to-toe with most Jedi. They might win, they might lose, but they could put up a fight. Obi-wan and Anakin both had difficulty dealing with them, and they are noted as some of the more skilled lightsaber combatants in the Order.

Conclusion

General Grievous was immune or resistant to many of the Jedi's common tricks, their equal or superior in single-blade combat, capable of moves Jedi would not easily anticipate or have trained against, and had dozens of tricks up his sleeves.

His training under Dooku would have given him an enormous edge over most Jedi - Dooku, one of the Jedi Order's most notable swordsmen, knew all their tricks and training habits. Grievous' physical attributes were at least the equal of his MagnaGuard's, and he could easily use two (or more) lightsabers.

That last sentence, above, is the final nail in most Jedi's coffins. It was extremely rare for any Jedi to use anything but a single lightsaber. Maul's double-bladed saber, the two-saber style, and other oddities were vanishingly rare. This meant that even an exceptionally skilled duelist would be at a disadvantage: they would be trained to watch two threat sources: their opponent's blade and their opponent's Force abilities. Against two blades, even skilled duelists suffered (reference: Qui-Gonn). Those who were extremely skilled, especially at defense, could handle two blades (or two attackers) somewhat well. But when four blades come into play, controlled by a single mind? Grievous could present dangers from three or four directions at once, and took advantage of this fact.

Against all of that, the ability of a Jedi to use a Force Push (itself an attack which is frequently telegraphed and which seems to be at least moderately tiring to use) to push Grievous back some distance doesn't seem like much of an advantage. Watch him when he battles, you'll see that he almost never puts himself between a Jedi and an environmental hazard (pit, spikes, chemicals or heat) that can hurt him. All a Push will do is tire the Jedi out and put some distance between the combatants.

share|improve this answer
    
Can you cite any canon? –  Jack Jul 28 at 17:58
6  
@Jack: at what point? Most of this is straight from the movies and Clone Wars TV series. In the movies and series, Magna Guard fight and sometimes beat Jedi. Grievous being as fast and strong as a Jedi is right from his fights on-screen. Grievous moving in ways that humanoids cannot is straight from the movies (moreso in the TV series). What parts need citation? –  Jeff Jul 28 at 18:02
    
Mostly "General Grievous was immune or resistant to many of the Jedi's common tricks, their equal or superior in single-blade combat, capable of moves Jedi would not easily anticipate or have trained against" –  Jack Jul 28 at 18:05
    
'Immune or resistant' is the only thing on there that isn't straight from the movies. I grant that it's largely conjecture based upon the fact that no Jedi is ever seen attempting to use these tactics against him. For the rest, well, Chapter 20 of the Clone Wars speaks for itself. –  Jeff Jul 28 at 19:19
1  
+1 | Nicely done, Jeff. The only thing I might add was that Grievous may have also had the capacity to move his lightsabers in ways not expected or trained against by most Jedi. With his cybernetic body, he has been seen rotating his lightsabers like propeller blades and having to defend against four individual blades as a single swordsman would overwhelm all but the most skilled defensive Jedi techniques. –  Thaddeus Jul 28 at 23:44

Simply put, the Jedi have a varying range of powers. Obi-Wan is one of the stronger Jedi both in power of the force as well as in skill with a lightsaber. And he was breaking a sweat fighting grievous. Some creatures also showed they were resistant to different force abilities, as well as being half a cyborg grievous appeared to have above average strength, most likely enhanced speed and reflexes as well. as we see Obi-Wan and Anakin aren't force pushing huge objects at people unlike Yoda, the emperor and even Count Dooku. So a weaker Jedi than them may not even have the power to push grievous away from them.

share|improve this answer
1  
If clone wars is taken as canon (as TenthJustice did), then I remember a Jedi using the force to push Grievous quite far. He drives his lightsabers into the ground to help him stop. This would seem to imply that this answer is invalid. –  Jack Jul 28 at 14:17
    
Since clone wars is a lower cannon then the movies, and we see obi-won doesn't do it, we can assume that Lucas did not want grievous to be force pushed. Otherwise why make a character that can just be forced pushed away. –  Himarm Jul 28 at 14:19
2  
also as @ tenthjustice says that mace windu uses a force push on him, He is far more powerful then obi-won in the force which again leads credence to my post. –  Himarm Jul 28 at 14:21
1  
@Jack Different Jedi have different strengths and weaknesses. Not all Jedi have the same strength, regardless of training. In fact, I'm not even sure it's safe to say all Jedi have the ability to Force Push, since some focus very specifically on certain aspects of the Force, and not all focus on combat at all. In Darth Bane: The Rule of Two, for example, the Jedi Weapons Master was described as focusing so exclusively on lightsaber form that she was practically unable to use other Force powers. –  Beofett Jul 28 at 15:06

Your Answer

 
discard

By posting your answer, you agree to the privacy policy and terms of service.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.