Was Darth Vader REALLY a Sith?

Question

"Two there should be; no more, no less. One to embody power, the other to crave it." ―Darth Bane

Did Darth Vader REALLY crave power? After thinking about the films a bit I realized that Darth Vader didn't really explicitly act in a way to obtain power for himself. The more I think about it, it seems like he got snared in a situation in which he realized that he was on the wrong side but didn't see a way out.

It seems like he keeps doing bad things not out of a desire for power, but out of some adolescent desire to please an authority figure/parental figure that is perpetuated throughout his adult life. He expresses regrets to Luke about the way things are.

I think the most telling point I have to make is that when Vader is fighting Luke on Death Star II he uses his lightsaber to keep Luke from killing the Emperor. Wouldn't a REAL Sith have killed the Emperor and used the ensuing confusion to capture Luke, to brainwash him into being his apprentice?

Answer 1

I'd say yes, he was a Sith - just not a very good one. I think you're spot on about getting snared in a bad situation, and - as I've written about Vader elsewhere on SE, I think that's generally how evil works, by requiring you to trade your soul because you're not willing to pay the price to hold onto it.

I think a couple of things are at play with the scene in ROJ. First and foremost, the rule of two wasn't established until after the movie. But in-universe, I think there are a couple of things going on as well. At this point Vader is much more focused on the father-son dynamic rather than the master-apprentice relationship...it's possible that it was Luke and not the Emperor that Vader was protecting.

Furthermore, if Vader was truly considering bringing on Luke as his apprentice, he may have known that striking down the Emperor in one blow would not turn Luke to the dark side...he needed Luke to develop his rage in a way that the duel would bring out.

Overall, if you stick strictly to canon sources, I think given Anakin's actions in ROTS justify his evil-ness, insofar as that is a measure of being a Sith. But I think you're right in that he didn't have that great a lust for power.

Answer 2

The Emperor as a father figure argument holds, but I think you might forget this:

Darth Vader: There is no escape! Dont make me destroy you. Luke, you do not yet realize your importance. You've only begun to discover your power. Join me, and I will complete your training. With our combined strength, we can end this destructive conflict, and bring order to the galaxy.

Luke Skywalker: I'll never join you!

...

Darth Vader: Luke, you can destroy the Emperor. He has foreseen this. It is your destiny. Join me, and together, we can rule the galaxy as father and son.

Vader wants to rule with his son. The Emperor sees through this too, and wants Luke to kill Vader (kill the competition and replace it with a loyal follower, let the cycle begin anew).

Other sources (games, novels) mention that Vader had apprentices too, meaning that he was looking for his own #2 for the time when he gets to be top dog.

Answer 3

I think he was really a Sith, but the Emperor was always one move ahead of him.

From the beginning, Anakin showed his desire to take the Emperor's place. From the Star Wars Episode 3 Revenge of the Sith Script :

PADME: Come away with me. Help me raise our child. Leave everything else behind while we still can.

ANAKIN: Don't you see, we don't have to run away anymore. I have brought peace to the Republic. I am more powerful than the Chancellor. I can overthrow him, and together you and I can rule the galaxy. Make things the way we want them to be.

But he was prevented from doing it somehow. We saw that Vader's armor was built so that the Emperor could keep control over him. We also saw that the Emperor may have exploded if he were killed. He probably warned him of the consequence of a direct physical assault, and may have developed this technique as a dissuasion weapon.

When Vader prevented Luke from killing the Emperor, he may just have saved his ass. The Emperor’s apparent passiveness was because he knew that Vader didn't have any other choice than protect him. They were very close to the Emperor when Luke made his attempt and we could guess that Vader would be mortally affected as his weakness to force lightning would also apply to such blasts. Anyway, their location, at the top of a tower on an atmosphere-less battle-station, reduces any hope of survival. This also explain why he thew him in the pit instead of Force-pulling Luke's lightsaber and slicing him with his left hand.

Answer 4

It may be more accurate to describe Darth Vader as a Dark Jedi, as he was a jedi first, and did not begin as a Sith. However, he was taken as an apprentice by Palpatine/Sidious, and was given the title "Darth", so yes, he is a Sith Lord.

Answer 5

Going by the Rule of Two, Vader can only become a Sith master if he strikes down the Emperor himself. That could have been his motivation to protect the Emperor. Otherwise, the Rule of Two would collapse, since every apprentice would abandon their master the first chance they get, and there'd be no cooperation.

OTOH, if an apprentice can only rise to become a Sith master by slaying his master himself (and by himself), then this ensures that the Sith apprentice won't turn on his master during a mission and let his master die in order to take his place. This also preserves the purpose of the Rule of Two—to make each generation of Sith master stronger than the last.

Alternatively, Luke probably wasn't strong enough to strike down the Emperor just like that, and Vader probably knew it. (The Emperor made no apparent attempt to defend himself, even though he was baiting Luke to strike him down the entire time and must have anticipated the strike. This would suggest that the Emperor felt no real threat from Luke's lightsaber abilities.) So he may have been protecting Luke while also demonstrating his loyalty to the Emperor.

Answer 6

I would say yes he was a Sith for many of the same reasons laid out here, but also for the same reason that Count Dooku/Darth Tyranus was a Sith as well. He followed the steps of Dooku into the Sith as a powerful Jedi first before becoming a Sith. Vader/Skywalker also exhibited desire for power to both his wife and to his son. He let fear, hate and anger fill him and direct him which is why Darth Sidious is able to seduce him to fully embrace the dark side and able to order him to murder.

Also I would argue that Vader, after Mustafar, needed the Emperor to stay alive which is another reason why he prevented Luke from striking him down.