objectivism in Heinlein's books?

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Oct 17, 2023 at 4:37	comment	added	Calion		The confusion here is with the term "altruism," which, at least according to Rand, is self-sacrifice as a virtue. But she did not think it was wrong for someone to act to benefit others, even for no benefit of their own, as long as that was not morally expected or required.
Feb 4, 2016 at 12:47	history	edited	Donald.McLean	CC BY-SA 3.0	Fixed several spelling errors
Jul 4, 2012 at 0:59	comment	added	DVK-on-Ahch-To		@NathanC.Tresch - I only read published work, so can't speak to letters. Her philosophy as embraced in "Atlas" is what II said - the problem is with enforcing altruism by others (by force or morality); NOT doing altruistic action by itself. Dagny's running the railroad as well as she could (as opposed to in a Dick Fuld manner) is about as altruistic a behavior as one can imagine - she'd have gotten the profits even if she didn't bother with competent hard work; and instead could have led an idle playgirl life.
Jul 3, 2012 at 23:26	comment	added	Nathan C. Tresch		@DVK, what Kaz said. She was VERY clear in her personal letters to others, using vitriolic language and personal attacks, regarding any action that wasn't 100% grounded in self interest. This is the main reason that I dislike her philosophy, while I embrace Heinleins 100% for the most part. "Naturally food is free! What kind of people do you take us for?" is an amazing statement when combined with "Physical violence is the ultimate authority" and "Those who have killed and died for the Republic are the only people qualified to help guide it." Politically I'm pretty wonky.
Jun 25, 2012 at 15:42	comment	added	user7122		DVK, you are mistaken about Rand...don't try to guess her ideas based solely on that one novel. In her article The Virtue of Selfishness, she explicitly condemned altruism, although of course she was butchering both "virtue" and "selfishness" according to only one simplistic reading of what they mean, and really provided a straw man for statists when she did so.
May 6, 2012 at 1:33	comment	added	DVK-on-Ahch-To		Also, the last paragraph about satirizing is extremely interesting - and if true, insightful. Is there a source quote confirming that (meaning, from RAH or someone who knew what he was thinking and not someone merely analyzing his work)?
May 6, 2012 at 1:32	comment	added	DVK-on-Ahch-To		BTW, if you emphacise the first paragraph, it's worth a +1 as I think that those themes are pretty much the core of both their philosophies, the rest is ornamental :)
May 6, 2012 at 1:24	comment	added	DVK-on-Ahch-To		BTW, a VERY important point in the above asserion that RAH made - the assertion was a utilitarian one. E.g. those who served weren't more fit to hold power for some theoretical moralistic considerations. They were because that was the most optimal stable equilibrum.
May 6, 2012 at 1:21	comment	added	DVK-on-Ahch-To		In addition, I must object to 'Heinlein also clearly thought very little of those who rejected such values as duty, honor, patriotism, and self-sacrifice, as seen in "Starship Troopers"' as well. He (using one of his mouthpieces, an instructor at the academy) very cleary stated that those who served were neither more virtuous nor smarter than those who didn't. They merely have a very specific quality which (according to RAH's philosophy as espouse in the book) makes them uniquely qualified for stable political power - namely, ability to place the good of the species above their own.
May 6, 2012 at 1:18	comment	added	DVK-on-Ahch-To		Actually, Rand did not believe that altruism was immoral - you are majorly misreading "Atlas" here. She merely believed that EXPECTING altruism and treating it as a virtue is immoral. In other words, if YOU personally choose to be altruistic, a (proper) Objectivist at best will say "good for you" and at worst will consider you wierd. The problem will ONLY arise if/when you (a) Use the fact of your altruism to claim you are BETTER in some way than someone who's not altruistic; and/or (b) Try to COMPEL someone to be altruistic.
Apr 27, 2012 at 13:19	comment	added	Nathan C. Tresch		@Donald.McLean Indeed, proofreading ftw.
Apr 27, 2012 at 13:19	history	edited	Nathan C. Tresch	CC BY-SA 3.0	added 5 characters in body
Apr 27, 2012 at 13:06	comment	added	Donald.McLean		While overall, I really like this answer, the last paragraph has a technical error. In "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress", the character is question (Mike the computer, aka Mycroft) was only compared to John Galt, not called John Galt - as is mentioned in the question.
Apr 27, 2012 at 13:00	history	answered	Nathan C. Tresch	CC BY-SA 3.0