Timeline for Distinguish the explanations of Galadriel's test in LotR
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
17 events
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| Jan 13, 2023 at 21:45 | comment | added | Spencer | Please remove the part saying: "We can resolve the discrepancy by assuming..." We can't resolve contradictory versions of the legendarium this way -- it's close to a "shark versus Godzilla" situation. | |
| Jun 16, 2020 at 9:31 | history | edited | CommunityBot |
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| Jul 18, 2019 at 16:17 | comment | added | hobbs | There's more than one way to the west. Perhaps she's sure that, with the passing of the age (the fourth age will either be the age of men or the age of Sauron, and either way Lothlorien and her power will come to an end), that she would either be killed, or give up life, and come to Mandos. | |
| Jul 8, 2019 at 12:40 | comment | added | Blackwood | @jpmc26 It's certainly possible that the song was an old one that Galadriel no longer thought was true. However, I don't think Tolkien would have included it in that case. | |
| Jul 8, 2019 at 12:36 | comment | added | jpmc26 | The song also contains the line "Now lost, lost to those of the East is Valimar!" (though in another language). This would seem to obviously no longer be the case since the elves are mostly sailing West. Is it possible the song is merely an old one written in the past to lament their situation? | |
| Jul 8, 2019 at 12:33 | history | edited | Blackwood | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jul 8, 2019 at 2:42 | comment | added | Voronwé | That group would have been unable to return, not because of a new ban imposed by the Valar, but because they rejected the pardon that would have cancelled the original ban. +1 this sums it up succinctly. | |
| Jul 8, 2019 at 2:39 | history | edited | Voronwé | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jul 7, 2019 at 21:26 | comment | added | Spencer | @Blackwood Hmm, I thought I saw it in CT commentary in Morgoth's Ring or The War of the Jewels. | |
| Jul 7, 2019 at 21:10 | comment | added | Blackwood | @Spencer I don't know if Tolkien toyed with the idea earlier, but in Unfinished Tales, Christopher tells us that the story of Galadriel having planned a trip to Middle-Earth before Melkor left Valinor was part of "the last writing of my father’s on the subject of Galadriel and Celeborn, and probably the last on Middle-earth and Valinor, set down in the last month of his life." | |
| Jul 7, 2019 at 21:01 | comment | added | Spencer | Remember that Galadriel first appeared in early drafts of LotR and was only later retconned into the Silmarillion (in which she is a cipher) when Tolkien started working on it again in the 1950's. His first idea was that G was planning her own independent trip to Middle-Earth, but the Valar instituted a travel ban when Melkor made his move. I'm not sure that JRRT ever made up his mind about G's role in the Elder Days and what we have is CT's best patchwork. | |
| Jul 7, 2019 at 19:10 | comment | added | Shamshiel | @klaus: She was friends with Gandalf, who was essentially the representative of the Valar, and who apparently had the authority to approve Bilbo and Frodo's trip. 'No doubt it was Gandalf who was the authority that accepted her [Arwen's] plea.' So I would say Gandalf told her. scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/48375/… | |
| Jul 7, 2019 at 18:20 | vote | accept | 3N4N | ||
| Jul 7, 2019 at 18:20 | comment | added | 3N4N | @MarkOlson, about how Galadriel learnt of her being allowed back in Vallinor, I think LotR has so soft a magic system, that it would hurt the overall vibe if we got some answer for that specific a question. Myself I would think that the ship wouldn't go on the Straight Road if all aboard were permitted to enter Vallinor, so Cirdan the shipwright must know who is permitted. Thus my answer is that, she just knows | |
| Jul 7, 2019 at 18:13 | comment | added | 3N4N | Thanks for your answer. I read the excerpts myself, but getting those in contained and serialized and listed form really helped my understanding. I myself believed that Galadriel remained in ME, even til 3rd age, because she had the desire to rule a kingdom, not because of a ban, and when she got lured by the promise of the Ring and denied it, then she thought that she was to return West to be among Elves because she got weary of the world and removed her dream of ruling. I don't know about the lament when Frodo departed, I didn't even make the connection because I hadn't yet read Silmarillion | |
| Jul 7, 2019 at 18:07 | comment | added | Mark Olson | Good post. The contradiction within LotR you write of may be resolvable: Galadriel may have hoped that her refusing the Ring would lift the ban against her, but how could she know that? (Surely she hadn't been offered a quid pro quo or gotten an eaglegram.) When the Fellowship left Lothlorien she was still is doubt and sang a song that she'd no doubt been singing for centuries. She was simply unsure. The real question for me is when and how did she learn that she would be allowed back? I can't believe she set sail with Gandalf, Elrond, Frodo, et al still unsure of her reception in Valinor. | |
| Jul 7, 2019 at 17:30 | history | answered | Blackwood | CC BY-SA 4.0 |