Timeline for What is the earliest instance of "Dark Elves" in modern Fantasy?
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32 events
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| Jun 27, 2020 at 19:49 | comment | added | Lexible | Relevant current work confronting the racism of the Drow stereotype by Wizards of the Coast: "Diversity and Dungeons & Dragons". | |
| Jan 18, 2020 at 9:22 | vote | accept | Sekhemty | ||
| Jan 16, 2020 at 23:48 | history | edited | Sekhemty | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jan 16, 2020 at 10:44 | answer | added | Rakaziel | timeline score: -2 | |
| Jan 14, 2020 at 23:13 | answer | added | Sekhemty | timeline score: 6 | |
| Jan 14, 2020 at 21:36 | answer | added | Jeremy Sloan | timeline score: 1 | |
| Jan 14, 2020 at 18:56 | comment | added | Sekhemty | About the Dunmer comments: the scope of this question is broader than TES setting, and I have specified that the listed features are just examples of the Dark Elf archetype. Even in other settings, the High Elf archetype share some of these, but the question here was not strictly about this. | |
| Jan 14, 2020 at 18:48 | comment | added | LarsH | Come to think of it, the Falmer (en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Falmer) are probably a better fit for "dark elves" than the Dunmer are: they actually dwell underground in the dark, and are evil, or at least murderously hostile toward overworlders (along with the other points that most mer share). | |
| Jan 14, 2020 at 16:20 | comment | added | LarsH | The fact that a volcano erupted catastrophically in the Dunmer homeland doesn't necessarily change their identity or character, any more than residents of Washington State have become more "dark-elvish" by the eruption of Mt. St. Helen's in their history. As for the other points 3-7, some of them apply somewhat, but not significantly more so than to the other mer of TES. Bosmer have roguish skills, Orsimer can be aggressive, family-oriented and distrustful of outsiders, all mer are thought to have derived from the Altmer, etc. | |
| Jan 14, 2020 at 13:03 | comment | added | VLAZ | @LarsH while I would never think to compare the Dunmer to anything like the Drow...they actually hit quite a few of these points, albeit more abstractly. 1. Yes. 2. not exactly - grey or white isn't much stranger than with other races. 3. not really evil but they do share some of the traits. They racially favour Destruction and some "rogue-ish"/slightly underhanded skills. 4. n'wah is thrown around a lot in Morrowind. 5. not heavily but a lot of ancestral veneration 6. Vvardenfel houses the Red Mountain. Although that's not why they live there. 7. Dunmer were the Chimer before. | |
| Jan 14, 2020 at 7:15 | comment | added | Annatar | @LarsH Well, points 5 & 7 do also apply, 6 as well to a degree (they may not prefer to, but they mainly live in a volcanic area), and any Argonian would also nod to 3 and 4. But you are right, the Dunmer are no more "evil" than the Altmer (High Elves), who got their fair share of racism and cruelty as well (contrary to the usual High Elf trope). In other words, TES provides no straight, but (partly) subverted examples of these tropes. | |
| Jan 14, 2020 at 5:04 | comment | added | LarsH | The Dunmer don't seem to fit in here as examples of "dark elves." The first two bullet points apply, but the rest either don't describe Dunmer, or else no more than any other mer. In other words, Dunmer are dark-colored elves, but aren't "dark elves" in the sense asked for here. | |
| Jan 13, 2020 at 21:19 | comment | added | K Dog | They all seem to have mullets too. | |
| Jan 13, 2020 at 21:00 | history | tweeted | twitter.com/StackSciFi/status/1216827396583776257 | ||
| Jan 13, 2020 at 20:52 | comment | added | Sekhemty | @NKCampell Fair point, they can be certainly considered as inspirations that led to the later archetype. If you or Nolimon want to put this in a full answer, it will get the proper visibility. | |
| Jan 13, 2020 at 20:47 | comment | added | NKCampbell | But, I think it's fair to say that perhaps Eol and Thrandruil may be the seeds of the archetype that later appeared as a full race in works like D&D, thus it is fair to cite them as, perhaps not the first as you are asking it, but certainly the spiritual antecedents from a history of the genre :) | |
| Jan 13, 2020 at 20:41 | comment | added | Sekhemty | @Nolimon there are many common things, I agree, but he was a single individual, and I was interested in the first depiction of a whole race. It is interesting to also know the possible inspirations as well, but it is slightly out of the scope here. Thank you anyway for the insights. | |
| Jan 13, 2020 at 20:35 | comment | added | Nolimon | Eol wasn't a special breed of elf, but he does hit an awful lot of these points: dark appearance (though armor rather than skin), black hair, arguably evil/cruel and aggressive, isolationist and not fond of High Elves, a strong (albeit not healthy) bond with his son, lived in a dark forest, and presumably used to be a usual member of elven society. I wouldn't be too sure conflation between the Dark Elf and the subgroup known as dark elves played no part in your archetype. | |
| Jan 13, 2020 at 20:34 | comment | added | Sekhemty | @NKCampbell my question is about a whole race, not about single characters (and even in these terms, Thranduil is not a "Dark Elf", since Dark Elves in the form that I have described don't exist at all in Middle Earth). It is a question about ethnology/anthropology rather than psychology, if you prefer to see this in these terms :) | |
| Jan 13, 2020 at 20:27 | comment | added | NKCampbell | aside from the aesthetics, Tolkien's Thrandruil could be considered in terms of a character, personality traits described above. He's built an isolated kingdom in a dank area, is self-indulgent/ While not evil, compared to the others of his race, is generally uncharacteristically petty and cruel | |
| Jan 13, 2020 at 20:23 | history | edited | Sekhemty | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jan 13, 2020 at 19:45 | history | became hot network question | |||
| Jan 13, 2020 at 16:43 | history | edited | Buzz | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jan 13, 2020 at 16:42 | answer | added | Buzz | timeline score: 53 | |
| Jan 13, 2020 at 16:00 | history | edited | Sekhemty | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jan 13, 2020 at 13:56 | answer | added | Klaus Æ. Mogensen | timeline score: 61 | |
| Jan 13, 2020 at 12:06 | comment | added | Sekhemty | Yes, I'm aware of Eol, but he was a Sindar, "Dark Elf" was just a nickname. | |
| Jan 13, 2020 at 12:01 | comment | added | OrangeDog | Tolkien certainly has a Dark Elf. | |
| Jan 13, 2020 at 11:49 | comment | added | Sekhemty | Related but different question: scifi.stackexchange.com/q/3159/83101 | |
| Jan 13, 2020 at 11:41 | history | edited | Sekhemty | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jan 13, 2020 at 11:41 | history | edited | TheLethalCarrot♦ | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jan 13, 2020 at 11:39 | history | asked | Sekhemty | CC BY-SA 4.0 |