Timeline for Is Treebeard the first Ent? If not, who was the first Ent?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
21 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Aug 5, 2020 at 6:36 | comment | added | Edlothiad | @Paul Yes but the North in the Third Age was the East in the First. And, likewise, the North in the First Age was considered West in the Third. So while Tolkien does use it to refer to regions, with the reshaping of the land between ages those "regions" change dramatically. And to address the company with the "Darkness that came in the North" in which the majority had most recently experienced the struggles with Angmar, it relating to Angband would be quite a surprise. At least in my opinion. Contextually one would expect them to think of the most recent and nearest northern darkness. | |
| Aug 4, 2020 at 20:21 | comment | added | Paul Sinclair | @Edlothiad - I've always thought he was using "the North", "the South", "the East" to refer to regions rather than directions. The names refer to the general relationship between those regions and the whole lands where the stories occur, not to specific areas in those lands. Perhaps this is just an American trait. I live in part of the "North", but some "Southern" states are farther north than mine. The divide was more political than geographical and is still used even where both "North" and "South" are actually mostly to the east. But it matches Tolkien's usage. | |
| Aug 4, 2020 at 18:55 | comment | added | Edlothiad | I would refer to Sibera as North East of the continent, personally, @Paul. Not as "The North". Describing something as the Terror from the North when there was one directly North of you. For example if I were in Georgia, Russia would be "Country in the North" not Canada | |
| Aug 4, 2020 at 15:23 | comment | added | Paul Sinclair | @Edlothiad What is curious about it? I have no trouble with the concept of referring to Alaska as the "North", though it is far west of where I am. Indeed, referring to Siberia as "the North" would not phase me, though it is on the other side of the world. It is the concept that "the North" can only refer to directly north of the speaker that I find curious. | |
| Aug 4, 2020 at 14:54 | comment | added | Edlothiad | Except Angband wasn’t really North of either though. In fact it was further West than the most westerly lands of Middle-earth in the Third Age. What curious wording by Tolkien. (My earlier use of the name Utumno was a mistake on my part, Utumno was likely destroyed before the Ents had even begun to exist. If it refers to the Darkness in the North as Morgoth it certainly refers to Angband) | |
| Aug 4, 2020 at 14:37 | comment | added | Nolimon | @Edlothiad North is probably best interpreted as relative to Fangorn Forest, not the Anduin. It's also the stock cardinal direction to refer to Morgoth, much like East for Sauron when Mordor is also South of almost everywhere that calls it the East. | |
| Aug 4, 2020 at 13:40 | comment | added | Edlothiad | @Nolimon nice quotes! Interesting to reference Utumno as north of the Anduin though, it would’ve been very far west in comparison to the Vales of Anduin | |
| Aug 4, 2020 at 13:19 | history | edited | Nolimon | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Some more chronology
|
| Aug 4, 2020 at 13:13 | history | edited | Nolimon | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
added 37 characters in body
|
| Aug 4, 2020 at 12:52 | history | edited | Nolimon | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
added 499 characters in body
|
| Aug 4, 2020 at 12:52 | comment | added | Nolimon | @TheMadHatter I've expanded the quote to show that the Darkness in the North fell before the Wars of Numenor and Sauron. But these wars are mentioned as a much later event during (well, slightly before) the search for the Entwives, not something soon after the Ents arrived. | |
| Aug 4, 2020 at 12:50 | comment | added | Nolimon | @Edlothiad I've expanded the quote to show that the Darkness is most certainly not Angmar: The Entwives were not living in the Brown Lands teaching men to farm shortly after Angmar's fall.The estrangement was during the dominion of Morgoth, the Ents' search was much later, after Sauron was overthrown at the End of the Second Age | |
| Aug 4, 2020 at 11:15 | comment | added | Edlothiad | @TheMadHatter the great river almost certainly references the Anduin, and the Brown Lands in which the Entwives were believed to have been killed off were East of the Anduin. It is most likely the Darkness that came in the North was the Witch-king of Angmar and not Morgoth in Utumno | |
| Aug 4, 2020 at 10:16 | comment | added | Edlothiad | Which quote? @TheMadHatter | |
| Aug 4, 2020 at 9:58 | comment | added | TheMadHatter | @Edlothiad or someone, can you please corrrectly. Interpret the quote in this answer? | |
| Aug 4, 2020 at 5:57 | comment | added | Edlothiad | I’m not sure how you came to the conclusion that he’s three ages old but I don’t think there’s any evidence that that’s where it stops. | |
| Aug 4, 2020 at 5:28 | comment | added | TheMadHatter | The Darkness in the North might refer to the Witch King of Angmar | |
| Aug 4, 2020 at 5:27 | comment | added | TheMadHatter | Your quote explicitly says that 'in the time of the war between Sauron and Men of the Sea'. Men of Sea refers to Numenoreans, and they lived in the second age after the fall of Morgoth. And of course the Numenoreans and Sauorn fought | |
| Aug 4, 2020 at 4:52 | comment | added | Nolimon | The Darkness is in the North (Morgoth), not the East (Sauron). There's also a long gap between the Entwives crossing the river and Treebeard desiring to see them that my cut quotes may not convey the best. | |
| Aug 4, 2020 at 4:48 | comment | added | TheMadHatter | The darkness was Morgoth ? Your quote contradicts it | |
| Aug 4, 2020 at 4:23 | history | answered | Nolimon | CC BY-SA 4.0 |