Timeline for Would the One Ring even work for anyone but Sauron?
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27 events
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| Dec 15, 2018 at 3:45 | comment | added | chiggsy | Or, maybe Sauron made the ring to stay on task. Sauron's a real go getter, unlike everyone else in the story, except Feanor and his sons. It's been thousands of years he's been doing this. You make something really nice, put your vast spirt and care into it, but it's easy to become possessive, which is a theme running through Tolkien's work. The ring makes you more like Sauron, as he was when it as forged. Everybody else in the story loses focus. Perhaps that is Bombadil's secret. Maybe give him the ring 3 millennia earlier and he raises an army, but now can't be bothered. | |
| Jul 10, 2015 at 7:25 | comment | added | turinsbane | The ring would've given Sauron domination of the elves,but as soon as he put it on the elves were aware of him so they fled and hid the rings and only started using them after Sauron was bereft of his by Isildur | |
| Jan 18, 2014 at 4:14 | comment | added | sksallaj | Just seemed as though the ring's purpose was to make sauron's enemies weaker mentally.. whereas sauron didn't become more powerful. Just wanted to make that clear in my post. I did like your answer btw.. so I upped it! | |
| Jan 18, 2014 at 4:06 | comment | added | sksallaj | I agree with you in your response, you didn't really disprove my point though. You quoted tolkien in saying that he wasn't "diminished" but it's contradictory because if he's ever separated from the ring, the "being" of what makes up Sauron is diminished.. but together.. they are the same as before. The original poster made is clear that he was asking whether or not the ring would augment powers like he assumed it did with Sauron. But the way the whole plot was written seemed like the ring didn't augment anyone's power at all. | |
| Jan 18, 2014 at 1:35 | comment | added | Shamshiel | @sksallaj: Well, the Ring simply didn't grant anyone augmented powers like that because it wasn't part of the Ring. Augmented "telepathy" was pretty much all you got. Also, Sauron died both times (Numenor and Elendil/Gil-galad) while wearing the Ring. Destroying the Ring killed him because so much of him was in it. And finally, yes, that was Sauron's problem. Tolkien wrote that not even the Ringwraiths could have taken the Ring from Frodo at Mount Doom; they would have had to lure him out and wait for Sauron. You may be interested in the FAQ of the Rings. | |
| Jan 17, 2014 at 14:53 | comment | added | sksallaj | The other contradiction to the orcs cowering away by Frodo commanding them to go away is.. if they were to listen to Frodo concerning the ring.. why did they cower? How can an objective to obtain the ring be accomplished if they are to cower when near that objective? | |
| Jan 17, 2014 at 14:51 | comment | added | sksallaj | And if Tolkien said what he said to be true, why did the downfall of Sauron happen when he is separated from the ring? Why did Sauron cease to exist after destroying the ring? That's what doesn't make sense to me. | |
| Jan 17, 2014 at 14:50 | comment | added | sksallaj | Shamshiel, by "augment", I mean.. if I couldn't lift a car before... now I can. If I couldn't run faster than a train.. now I can.. everything about me would improve. Regardless of whether the voice came from the ring or from frodo.. that is not a power. If I held a gun, and I told people to go away.. and they did because I had the gun.. that doesn't make ME a powerful person.. it makes me scary because I have an advantage that others don't have. | |
| Jan 17, 2014 at 14:01 | comment | added | Shamshiel | @sksallaj: Also, please see the letter I referenced above where Tolkien directly says that Sauron was not diminished without the Ring (unless someone else claimed it and used it), in which he also later says that someone sufficiently strong could claim the Ring and "challenge Sauron, become master of all that he had learned or done since the making of the One Ring, and so overthrow him and usurp his place." That certainly does not seem helpful to Sauron. | |
| Jan 17, 2014 at 13:57 | comment | added | Shamshiel | @sksallaj: I am puzzled by your definition of what would "augment" someone's powers. If understanding the thoughts of Orcs, terrifying Orcs, and subjugating Gollum don't qualify, what exactly would? (It was also Frodo who spoke, not the Ring, in the wider context.) Nor did Sauron get anything out of those encounters (in fact, they were critical for Frodo's success.) But as I also referenced, the only characters to carry the Ring - the Hobbits - did not have the capability to use the power of the Ring; they were only going to get mild benefits. | |
| Jan 17, 2014 at 5:40 | comment | added | sksallaj | If you can find one example, where the ring actually allowed the user to gain control over the minds of others.. without the user being under control of the ring.. then it's settled, that the purpose of the ring can apply to others and not just Sauron. | |
| Jan 17, 2014 at 5:36 | comment | added | sksallaj | One more thing concerning your comment, about Sauron's power with the ring; and the quote you mentioned. What does it mean for Sauron's power to be enhanced? We don't know what this means. The enhancement could have been the deception he instilled in his enemies by creating the rings for them. With the ring Sauron is not diminished.. he created a symbiotic relationship with it.. so his power is neither lost or gained from it, however, the weakness is that if he is separated, he is diminished.. which caused his defeat against Isildur. | |
| Jan 17, 2014 at 5:28 | comment | added | sksallaj | To reiterate, the ring didn't do anything "powerful" to the user.. only to serve as an advantage to Sauron. No other user received this type of advantage. Each time they use the ring.. Sauron is the being that gets the upper hand. | |
| Jan 17, 2014 at 5:26 | comment | added | sksallaj | @Shamshiel, I still disagree, I read your examples, and it didn't augment any powers to the person holding it. It still showed deception. The ring spoke and made the person holding the ring.. "bigger" than they really are; but still didn't "do" anything. The whole thing is two fold, since the Orcs obeyed the ring and "crouching shape backed away, terror in its blinking eyes".. then the ring deceived them. If the Orcs did not do that, then it showed that the ring wasn't able to accomplish the power of deception. | |
| Jan 17, 2014 at 3:36 | comment | added | Shamshiel | @JimmyShelter: The One Ring was forged especially to control the wielders of the other rings, but it still helped control and dominate others. For example: "He naturally had the One Ring, and so very soon dominated the minds and wills of most of the Númenóreans." (Letter 111) Or the letter I quoted before: "his was the essential weakness he had introduced into his situation in his effort (largely unsuccessful) to enslave the Elves, and in his desire to establish a control over the minds and wills of his servants." | |
| Jan 17, 2014 at 1:20 | comment | added | user8719 | @Shamshiel - that's correct, but there's a subtle difference. You shouldn't interpret it as meaning that the Ring gives you power over people; it gives you power over the other Rings and through that you can control what's accomplished by use of the other Rings. | |
| Jan 17, 2014 at 1:15 | comment | added | Shamshiel | @JimmyShelter Yes..but that's why he wanted to gain power over the other rings - it was only a means to an end. | |
| Jan 17, 2014 at 1:12 | comment | added | user8719 | @Shamshiel - no, the purpose of the One Ring was to gain power over the other Rings: "the power of the Elven-rings was very great, and that which should govern them must be a thing of surpassing potency" (Rings of Power). Not over the Elves, but rather over their Rings. | |
| Jan 17, 2014 at 1:10 | comment | added | Shamshiel | I also want to add...I did give examples of the Ring conferring powers and advantages over people other than Sauron, and Tolkien's statements that it would do so. :) | |
| Jan 17, 2014 at 1:05 | comment | added | Shamshiel | Re: your comments on Sauron's powers with the ring - "While he wore it, his power on earth was actually enhanced. But even if he did not wear it, that power existed and was in 'rapport' with himself: he was not 'diminished'." - Tolkien The purpose of the One Ring was to gain power over the Elves, which failed. The Ring didn't do much for Sauron. | |
| Jan 16, 2014 at 21:56 | comment | added | Valorum | I appreciate what you mean, but without quotes or references it's hard to determine what's canonical (e.g. from the books, letters, interviews, etc) and what's essentially a fan-theory. | |
| Jan 16, 2014 at 21:51 | comment | added | sksallaj | I'm sorry for this, I spent a long time writing the answer, the contexts of the quotes would be extremely large since I'm describing full events. Plus to go through the material would be take more time than the answer in itself. I have read all the books, and it just seemed more convenient for myself and for other fans to understand the references from memory :). | |
| Jan 16, 2014 at 21:48 | history | edited | sksallaj | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Jan 16, 2014 at 21:48 | comment | added | Valorum | An excellent answer, albeit lacking any references or quotes to prove the points you're making... | |
| Jan 16, 2014 at 21:46 | review | First posts | |||
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| Jan 16, 2014 at 21:39 | history | edited | sksallaj | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Jan 16, 2014 at 21:30 | history | answered | sksallaj | CC BY-SA 3.0 |