Timeline for Is there more than one species of elf in Tolkien's Legendarium?
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| Oct 21, 2018 at 14:30 | comment | added | KRyan | Regarding ¹, “strictly speaking,” species doesn’t have a strict definition. The “able to produce viable offspring” definition that I presume you mean (in reference to the half-elves) does not work out in quite a number of corner cases, which might arguably include elves and men. See Wikipedia on the species problem for more details. | |
| May 10, 2017 at 17:23 | history | bounty ended | ibid | ||
| Apr 13, 2017 at 12:43 | history | edited | CommunityBot |
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| Jan 21, 2017 at 15:49 | history | edited | Jason Baker | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Oct 14, 2015 at 0:14 | history | edited | Jason Baker | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Aug 6, 2015 at 3:54 | history | edited | Jason Baker | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Aug 6, 2015 at 3:49 | history | edited | Jason Baker | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Aug 5, 2015 at 13:49 | comment | added | Zack | Wouldn't they technically trace their lineage back to two of the 144 elves that first awoke at Cuiviénen in the Years of the Trees? | |
| Aug 5, 2015 at 9:45 | comment | added | Damon | @Maksim: Is it really an accepted fact that elves are reborn rather than wait in Mandos' halls (Glorfindel being an exception)? However, this would give a nice "biological" explanation for some other facts (some of which are explained mystically and some of which aren't). Such as why elves grow weary and fade, and why the elves of Old could match a Maiar in battle whereas the later ones couldn't. If there is only enough "elf essence" worth 144 individuals in the world, and it's distributed over millions, then each one gets less... | |
| Aug 5, 2015 at 9:28 | comment | added | Maksim | I'd still view it as just a folklore story, which purpose was some numerical instruction. Given the accepted "fact" the Elves got reborn into their children after death, so that their overall number neither grew nor diminished, it's highly unlikely that there were only 144 Elves originally and that they were breeding like rabbits in order to get to hundreds of thousands or perhaps even more than a million Elves that lived in Arda. The Elvish society was hardly filled with children like the human society was/is. | |
| Aug 5, 2015 at 7:06 | history | edited | Jason Baker | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Aug 5, 2015 at 4:24 | vote | accept | Major Stackings | ||
| Aug 5, 2015 at 2:05 | comment | added | Jason Baker | @Maksim Certainly possible, but I take that note to be referring to the version of the legend immediately following it. That version and the one I quoted have similar information but two very different styles, suggesting one is a simplified, children's version and one is a lore-version | |
| Aug 5, 2015 at 1:43 | comment | added | Maksim | @JasonBaker, one has to question the "truthfulness" of that text. Christopher notes: "On one copy my father wrote (and similarly but more briefly on the other): 'Actually written (in style and simple notions) to be a surviving Elvish "fairytale" or child s tale, mingled with counting-lore". | |
| Aug 5, 2015 at 1:09 | comment | added | Jason Baker | @Maksim "According to the legend, preserved in almost identical form among both the Elves of Aman and the Sindar, the Three Clans were in the beginning derived from the three Elf-fathers: Imin, Tata, and Enel (sc. One, Two, Three), and those whom each chose to join his following. So they had at first simply the names Minyar 'Firsts', Tatyar 'Seconds', and Nelyar 'Thirds'. These numbered, out of the original 144 Elves that first awoke, 14, 56, and 74; and these proportions were approximately maintained until the separation." HoMe IV 4.C | |
| Aug 5, 2015 at 1:00 | comment | added | Maksim | Where does it say that 144 elves were awakened at Cuivienen? | |
| Aug 4, 2015 at 22:13 | comment | added | Lexible | +11111!!!!!eleventy-one!!!!! for footnote number 1! | |
| Aug 4, 2015 at 19:43 | history | edited | Jason Baker | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Aug 4, 2015 at 19:37 | history | edited | Jason Baker | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Aug 4, 2015 at 19:28 | history | answered | Jason Baker | CC BY-SA 3.0 |