The TVTropes article Fur Against Fang has this to say about vampires and werewolves in Middle-earth:

Werewolves despised vampires, considering them “rats with wings” and vampires regarded wolves like big bullies. It is not so evident in The Silmarillion, but when you read the Lay of Beren and Luthien and the meeting with Carcharoth, the text makes clear that Carcharoth is shocked of seeing a vampire and wolf together and wolves hate vampires.

On TVTropes, “Lay of Beren and Luthien” is linked to The History of Middle-earth. I assume that it’s talking about The Lay of Leithian in The Lays of Beleriand, but I can’t find the text “rats with wings” anywhere in that book.

Is there a passage that describes what werewolves and vampires thought of each other? I am looking for either the passage referenced on TVTropes, or anything else that describes what vampires and werewolves think of each other.

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1 Answer 1


The intrepid TVTropes editor1 is likely referring to this passage from Canto XII, though I would argue they misinterpret it (emphasis mine):

But what is this that crawls beside,
slinking as if 'twould neath thee hide?
Though winged creatures to and fro
unnumbered pass here, all I know.
I know not this. Stay, vampire, stay!
I like not thy kin nor thee. Come, say
what sneaking errand thee doth bring,
thou winged vermin, to the king!
Small matter, I doubt not, if thou stay
or enter, or if in my play
I crush thee like a fly on wall,
or bite thy wings and let thee crawl.'

The History of Middle-earth III The Lays of Beleriand Chapter 3: "The Lay of Leithian" Canto XII

While the TVTropes editor interprets this passage as saying that all werewolves dislike vampires, I don't know that I would be so confident; in my estimation, it only means that Carcharoth doesn't like vampires.

1 And note that it really is just one person's opinion; TVTropes is notoriously uncurated

  • Nice little jab at the flying rodent though. Do vampires carry rabies?
    – Morgan
    Mar 1, 2016 at 23:54
  • Do you know of any other passages that might shed light on the general feeling of werewolves about vampires? I'm not sure that vampires are even mentioned outside of The Lays of Beleriand and The Silmarillion, so I'm guessing that the passage you quoted is the closest I'm going to get.
    – Molag Bal
    Mar 2, 2016 at 18:01
  • @amaretto I don't, although I haven't combed through the prose versions of the story in exhaustive detail. I'm reasonably confident these are the only writings where vampires are mentioned, but when I have more time I can do a more thorough search Mar 2, 2016 at 18:12
  • OK, I'll accept this answer then. Where did you get prose versions of the stories? I searched through The Lays of Beleriand on Amazon but found the poetry difficult to parse.
    – Molag Bal
    Mar 2, 2016 at 18:16
  • @amaretto Scattered throughout History of Middle-earth. Because that series shows how the narrative progressed over time, there's no single place to find them all Mar 2, 2016 at 18:27

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