25

So, the sequel (if we ignore TAS) to the original Star Trek is Star Trek: The Next Generation. My question simply is: are any of the regular bridge crew actually from the generation following that of the bridge crew in TOS?

That is, if we say the members of Kirk's voyage were Generation 1, are any of the main crew members we see members of the generation following Generation 1?

I'm also including the CMOs, which means both Crusher and Pulaski.

Just to clarify, the people who I would classify as 'regular bridge crew members' are:

  • Picard
  • Riker
  • Data
  • LaForge
  • Worf
  • Troi
  • Yar
  • Crusher
  • Pulaski

And I'm not even going to worry about Wesley because he obviously can't be!

  • 13
    Problem is, the entire notion of "generations" is routinely simplified to the degree that it doesn't actually reflect any sort of reality. You've already hit on that by including Pulaski. If Pulaski is Generation N, can Wesley Crusher also be Generation N? Doubtful. Then by extension, who of the TOS cast was actually Generation 1? – Lightness Races in Orbit Mar 21 '16 at 4:13
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    @JDługosz in this context though the point is moot; as the characters in TAS are the same as those in TOS, it doesn't really matter here – Often Right Mar 21 '16 at 9:39
  • 6
    "The Next Generation" referred to a generation of television series, not an in-universe generation of humans. – TOOGAM Mar 21 '16 at 12:17
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    Short remark about Worf: He's the grandchild of the attorney who defended Kirk and Spock in Star Trek VI, so somewhat second generation from TOS. – Boldewyn Mar 21 '16 at 13:35
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    @Boldewyn: Third... – Lightness Races in Orbit Mar 21 '16 at 15:32
43

No: they're actually the Next Next Next Generation

Here is my in-universe reasoning. Captain Jean-Luc Picard, the oldest regular bridge officer on the Enteprise-D, was born in 2305, as per his official biographical entry.

On the other hand, Star Trek III: The Search for Spock took place twenty years before Picard's birth, in 2285.

By that time, Captain Kirk (to be precise, Admiral Kirk at that time) had a child, David Marcus, who was already in his early twenties.

If Marcus had lived past 2285, he could have easily had a child who would be around twenty by the time Picard was born.

Therefore, measuring by human generational standards, Captain Picard was the third generation after Kirk's.

NOTE: @sfhq_sf came to the same conclusion, but by out-of-universe reasoning. Note that current average generational lengths do not necessarily apply in-universe to the 23rd and 24th centuries, which is why I used Kirk's progeny to arrive at the conclusion.

  • 1
    that's what I said – sfhq_sf Mar 21 '16 at 1:24
  • 6
    @sfhq_sf : Yes, but I reasoned it in a different way than you. On SFF:SE, we often have answers that come to the same conclusion but by different means. You used out-of-universe reasoning, I used in-universe reasoning. – Praxis Mar 21 '16 at 1:25
  • 2
    Excellent reasoning. May a thousand upvotes rain down upon you! – Often Right Mar 21 '16 at 1:27
  • 1
    @N_Soong : Or even the Next, Next, Next Generation. :-) – Praxis Mar 21 '16 at 3:39
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    As an interesting Tidbit, in Germany TNG is called "Das nächste Jahrhundert" (the next century). Which is entirely appropriate as TOS takes place in the 2260s and TNG in the 2360s. So actually a case where the localized name fits better than the original. – Dulkan Mar 21 '16 at 8:37
16

No. The average length of a generation per ancestry.com is about 25.5 years. So by the time of Picard and company it would be about the 3rd generation. As evidenced by the Enterprises A, B and C.

  • @N_Soong thanks for the edit, I haven't figured out the links yet. – sfhq_sf Mar 21 '16 at 1:13
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    Note that the commissioning of new Enterprises is not necessarily tied to the rise of new generations: scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/80321/… – Praxis Mar 21 '16 at 1:24
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    No worries ;) The only quibble I have with your argument is that you're basing this on current statistics rather than taking into consideration the different conditions of the 23rd/24th centuries – Often Right Mar 21 '16 at 1:26
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    There is nothing average about the crews of Starfleet, not by the standards of our time, not by the standards of their time. And take into account freezing sperm. A member of TOS could have a child when he was 90 (why would he is another question), and that child could be a crewmember on the ship of TNG. – ab2 Mar 21 '16 at 2:25
  • @N_Soong a "grandfather" (a way to average the length of 2 generations) of 50 years has been reasonably consistent for at least a few hundred years in the west. – HorusKol Mar 22 '16 at 2:21
10

This is actually answered in the aptly titled movie "Generations", when Kirk says to Picard "I was out saving the galaxy when your grandfather was in diapers".

By the way this neatly agrees with both Praxis' and sfhq's answers which were each arrived at by different means.

8

YES (possibly. Ok, it's a stretch! - answer at the bottom, after I've had my rant)

The logic applied by @Praxis and @N_Soong, is absolutely correct for human beings. There is too much time between the TOS & TNG for a normal human of the next generation to be on TNG.

Known Exceptions:

Mr Spock - he appears in TNG (Season 5, Ep 7&8), so he could easily have had a son, who would be an appropriate age to appear in TNG. I am not aware of Mr Spock having a child.

James T Kirk - was sort-of still alive, inside the Nexus (ST: Generations). No known offspring of "this" Kirk.

Captain Montgomery "Scotty" Scott - trapped in a transporter loop (TNG: Season 6 Episode 4, "Relics"). He was elderly when rescued, so very unlikely to have had children.

Spock's FATHER, Sarek, on the other hand, DOES appear in TNG (so it should be "the previous generation"?!) - Season 5, Ep 7.

Ok, so those are all presumably "no"'s. Who else?

The computer - computer hardware is often referred to is (for example) 5th generation. However, these generations (in 20th century earth) go a lot faster than human generations, so would be unlikely.

This leaves (fanfare please!):

The computer/Majel Barrett-Roddenberry/Lwaxana Troi. Majel Barrett-Roddenberry portrayed the computer in TOS, and Lwaxana Troi in TNG. Lwaxana's daughter, Deanna Troi, was definitely in TNG.

(ducks)

P.S. - the question has since been edited, specifically eliminating the computer from "bridge crew".

  • Hmm, I think that it's a bit of a stretch with your Lwaxana Troi/Nurse Chape/Computer argument 😉 – Often Right Mar 21 '16 at 4:07
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    The other thing is that I specifically restrict it to regular bridge crew, none of the examples you mention satisfy that. If this was Voyager however, we'd have Mr Tuvok who probably would satisfy – Often Right Mar 21 '16 at 4:17
  • The only non-human regular bridge are Worf and Data, both of whom are younger than Picard. As you point out, the computer might satisfy this, although it's drawing a long bow to argue that this was the next generation of computers following from Kirk's crew, but I don't specify that this is a bridge crew member in my list above – Often Right Mar 21 '16 at 4:28
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    I'm impressed with the ingenuity and amount of thinking that had to be required to construct the Majel connection. Good job being inventive. – TOOGAM Mar 21 '16 at 12:17
  • I did make it clear that it was a stretch. Most of the post clears up the loophole in other people's argument regarding generations age - and ignoring non-humans. – AMADANON Inc. Mar 21 '16 at 21:44
7

Not Really but Yes?

Sulu's daughter was helmsman of the Enterprise in the Next Generation movie Generations.

Demora Sulu was a Starfleet ensign serving aboard the Excelsior-class USS Enterprise-B under the command of Captain John Harriman in 2293. The daughter of Hikaru Sulu, she carried on her father's legacy as helmsman of the Enterprise.

She wasn't part of the TNG series but just a pre-TNG opening of the one movie.

  • 1
    Good spot, although she presumably wouldn’t have been part of a starship crew by the time period featured in The Next Generation. – Paul D. Waite Mar 21 '16 at 23:17
  • I think technically the Enterprise commanded by Demora Sulu was the real "next generation", what with her being the actual offspring of one of the TOS crew, but I always assumed the "Next Generation" part of TNG just meant "next series" not literally the next genealogical generation of humans. – user22478 Mar 23 '16 at 9:13
0

Worf is the grandson of the Klingon colonel (also named Worf) who tried to defend Kirk and McCoy in Star Trek VI (which actually makes him the next next generation)

0

The length of an average generation from parent to child can vary greatly from one lineage to another, so that there are many examples of families have several exceptionally long or short generations in a row. Of course, the tendency is that the greater the number of generations, the closer they will come to the average generation length.

Tang Dynasty Emperor Xuanzong (685-762) was born only 139 years before his descendant in eight generation gaps, Li Pu (824-828), crown prince of Emperor Jingzon (809-827), making an average of 17.375 years per generation gap.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_emperors_family_tree_%28middle%29#Tang_and_Second_Zhou_dynasties1

Emperor Mingyaun of Northern Wei (392-423), was born only 115 years before Emperor Wen of Western Wei (507-551) an average of only 16.42 years per generation gap.

Crown Prince Touba Huang (428-451) of the Northern Wei Dynasty (grandson of Emperor Mingyaun) Dynasty was born only 79 years before his great great great grandson Emperor Wen of Western Wei (507-551), an average of 15.8 years per generation, and only 55 years before his great great grandson Emperor Xuanwu (483-515), making an average of 13.75 years per generation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_emperors_family_tree_%28middle%29#Northern_Wei.2C_Eastern_Wei.2C_Western_Wei2

James Fitzgerald (died 1558) 14th Earl of Desmond in Ireland, married as his FIRST wife (out of four) the granddaughter of his younger bother. Thus the children of that marriage were both the grandchildren and the great great grandchildren of the 14th Earl's parents!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_FitzGerald,_14th_Earl_of_Desmond3

Similarly Grand Duke of Baden Leopold I (1790-1852) who is the ancestor of many catholic royals and nobles married his older half brother's granddaughter Sophie (1801-1865), princess of Sweden, and had children. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_I,_Grand_Duke_of_Baden4

I once calculated that Prince Joseph Ferdinand of Bavaria (1692-1699), descendant of many uncle-niece marriages, was descended from Grand Duke Gediminas of Lithuania (c. 1275-1341) in both ten and fifteen generation gaps, averaging about 41.7 and 27.8 years respectively.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Ferdinand_of_Bavaria5

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_II,_Holy_Roman_Emperor6

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladislaus_II_of_Hungary7

Sigismund II Augustus (1520-1572), King of Poland and Grand Duke of Lithuania, was descended in four generation gaps from Grand Duke Algirdis (c. 1296-1377), an average of 56 years per generation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigismund_II_Augustus#Ancestry8

The shorter the number of generations, the more they can deviate from the average.

King Idris of Libya (1889-1983) was the son of Muhammad al-Mahdi as-Senussi (1844-1902), the son of Muhammad ibn Ali as-Senussi (1787-1859). The average of the two generation is 51 years, but Muhammad al-Mahdi was 57 years younger than his father.

Harrison Ruffin Tyler (born 1928) is the grandson of President John Tyler (1790-1862), making the average generation 69 years, but the actual generation lengths are 63 years and 75 years.

A single generation can be much longer or shorter than the average over several generations.

Wikipedia has a long list of older mothers in the article Pregnancy over age 50. The oldest age for a women to conceive naturally is listed as 59 and the oldest age to give birth is listed as 66.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pregnancy_over_age_509

I may add that many members of European royalty are descended from Duke Leopold III of Austria (1351-1386) son of Joanna of Pfirt (c. 1300-1351), although some suspect she was not as old as reported.

In the fictional universe of Star Trek Kirayoshi O'Brian was born in 2373 http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Kirayoshi_O%27Brien10, about 104 years after his mother's mother was born in 2269 http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Keiko_O'Brien11, thus making two female generations averaging 52 years each.

But many fans assume that Keiko was younger, and thus that her mother gave birth to her at an older age:

It's also interesting to note that Keiko's mother was apparently around the age of 60 when she had Keiko (assuming Keiko was not much older than 40 in 2369).

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Keiko_O%27Brien12

If Lieutenant Uhura was about 30 in TOS she could have given birth to a child 30 years later when aged 60. That child could have been a senior staff member of the Enterprise D aged about 70 in TNG. Yeoman Janice Rand was probably younger than 30 in TOS. And then there was Yeoman Third Class Tina Lawton, aged about 17 in "Charlie X", who could have showed up as an elderly admiral in TNG, still annoyed by being called "lizard girl", and who could have had a 65 or 60 year old child on the senior staff of of the Enterprise D.

So there literally could have been a member of the female "next generation" in The Next Generation.

Of course it is much more common for men to became old parents than for women.

Marcus Porcius Cato Uticensis (95 BC-46 BC) or Cato the Younger, was the great grandson of Marcus Porcius Cato (234 BC-149 BC), Cato the Elder, making an average generation 46.33 years, which is not startling. But Cato the younger's grandfather, Marcus Porcius Cato Salonianus (born c. 154 BC) was born when Cato the Elder was 80 years old.

Massinissa (c. 238 BC-148 BC) first King of Numidia, was said to have fathered a son age 86.

http://www.livius.org/articles/person/massinissa/13

King Casimir IV of Poland (1427-1492) was the son of Wladyslaw II Jagiello (c. 1352/62-1434), son of grand Duke Algirdas of Lithuania (c. 1296-1377). Thus Algirdas was about 56 to 66 when Wladyslaw II was born, and Wladyslaw II was about 65 to 75 when Casimir IV was born.

Grand Duke Svitrigaila of Lithuania (before 1370-1452) was born when his father Algirdas was about 70 years old.

I have read of two different Civil War veterans who became fathers in the 1930s when aged in their nineties.

And there are many other examples of elderly fathers not the Wikipedia List of Oldest Fathers.

The oldest on the list include Ramjit Raghav (born c. 1916) who became a father age 94 and 96, and Reverend James E. Smith who reportedly became a father aged 101 in 1951.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_fathers14

Ensign Chekov was 22 in the second season of TOS. If he became a father 38 years later aged 60, that child would have been 62 years old 100 years after the second season of TOS and about the time of TNG.

Captain Kirk was 34 in the second season of TOS. If he became a father 26 years later aged 60, that child would have been 74 years old 100 years after the second season of TOS and about the time of TNG. If Kirk became a father 40 years after the second season aged 74, that child would have been 60 years old 100 years after the second season of TOS and about the time of TNG.

In "Space Seed" Khan and 72 of his followers were revived (12 others died due to malfunctions) after "two hundred" years (probably almost 300 years) in suspended animation, which was probably a record.

KIRK: Is it possible they're still alive after centuries of travel?

MCCOY: It's theoretically possible. I've never heard of it being tested for this long a period.

http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/24.htm15

After that example of long term success, suspended animation units for emergencies may have become more common. Thus it would have been possible for a child of one of the TOS characters to be kept in suspended animation for many decades and revived to become a member of the TNG bridge crew.

In TNG "Relics" Mr. Scott is suspended in a transporter pattern buffer for 75 years. After being rematerialized he could have joined the TNG bridge crew, though he did not.

In "The Neutral Zone" three persons frozen after death are brought back to life after about 370 years of being dead. Obviously one or more could have stayed on the Enterprise D and become major characters. It would have been equally possible for some member of the generation of the children of the TOS bridge crew to be killed, be frozen, and be revived after several decades to serve in the TNG bridge crew.

And there would have been many other methods to get someone in the generation of the children of the TOS bridge crew to become a member of the TNG bridge crew.

The creators of TNG chose how many years were between TOS and TNG. They could have chose 30 years or 300 years, 10 years or 10,000 years, as the time between the two series. And they chose the biographies of the main characters in TNG and chose not to make any of them members of the same generation as the children of the TOS heroes.

Thus it would have been plausible to make some of the STNG characters members of the "next generation" of TOS characters' families, or the same age as the children of TOS characters, if the creators of tNG had desired to. But Star Trek: The Next Generation was supposed to be the "next generation" of Star Trek TV shows, not the "next generation" of Star Trek families.

  • +1 for a lot of historical detail, but -1 for it being only tangentially related to the question... – user22478 Mar 23 '16 at 9:15
0

Sort Of:

So, it's not literally TNG, but in The Undiscovered Country, Sulu serves as the captain of the USS Excelsior.

Then in *VOY: "Flashback" we see that Tuvok served under Sulu in the same ship and timeframe.

enter image description here

Of course, Tuvok did not serve on the Enteprise, but USS Voyager and USS Enterprise-D are essentially contemporaneous.

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