67

I am re-watching Game of Thrones and I came across this question.

Tywin Lannister is the Lord of Casterly Rock - But since his death, who is now the Lord of Casterly Rock?

  1. Tyrion can't be the Lord as he is a fugitive.
  2. Jaime Lannister cannot be the Lord either as he's in the order of the Kingsguards.
  3. There is no indication that it's Cersei.

Has this ever been mentioned? I imagine that since Tywin's death, there would be a lot of enemies who will see this as a weakness and try to take this land?

  • 6
    The Vassals of House Lannister haven't yet forgotten fate of Houses Reyne and Tarbeck to try and rebel against the lions. And enemies of House Lannister are all but destroyed on every compass point except south (high Garden and Dorne). – Aegon May 16 '16 at 10:43
  • 1
    Why is it not the Imp? That's a pretty important assumption. – TylerH May 16 '16 at 14:39
  • 5
    @TylerH Tyrion is an attainted traitor. Unless and until that is overturned he's out of the line of succession. – Nigel Harper May 16 '16 at 14:53
  • 1
    You should define what now means (At the end of first 5 books/seasons?). Otherwise all the answers are going to get obsolete once GRRM (probably) starts to kill Cersei's children. Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds. – sampathsris May 18 '16 at 6:22
  • We do not currently know. Probably a castellan rules in Cersei's name. Did Kevan have sons? One of them would suffice. – TheMathemagician Oct 2 '17 at 9:25
97

Let's begin this answer with a quote from GRRM:

The short answer is that the laws of inheritance in the Seven Kingdoms are modelled on those in real medieval history... which is to say, they were vague, uncodified, subject to varying interpretations, and often contradictory.

With that being said, Cersei is the current Lady paramount of the Westerlands by both the show and the books.

Kevan and his proginy can't ascend to throne of the Kings of the Rock while a Child of Tywin's body is alive and free to claim his/her rights.

Lannisters are Andals who practice faith of seven. According to Andal traditions, rights of a son come before an elder daughter. Similarly rights of a daughter come before rights of an uncle. So the claimants with their number in Line of succession to Throne of Kings of the Rock would be (Ideally):

╔════════════════════╦════════════════╦══════════════════╗
║      Claimaint     ║ Number in Line ║ Remarks          ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════╬══════════════════╣
║   Jaime Lannister  ║        1       ║ Ideal Conditions ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════╬══════════════════╣
║  Tyrion Lannister  ║        2       ║ Ideal Conditions ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════╬══════════════════╣
║  Cersei Lannister  ║        3       ║ Ideal Conditions ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════╬══════════════════╣
║  Joffrey Baratheon ║        4       ║ Ideal Conditions ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════╬══════════════════╣
║  Tommen Baratheon  ║        5       ║ Ideal Conditions ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════╬══════════════════╣
║ Myrcella Baratheon ║        6       ║ Ideal Conditions ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════╬══════════════════╣
║   Kevan Lannister  ║        7       ║ Ideal Conditions ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════╬══════════════════╣
║  Lancel Lannister  ║        8       ║ Ideal Conditions ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════╬══════════════════╣
║  Martyn Lannister  ║        9       ║ Ideal Conditions ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════╬══════════════════╣
║  Willem Lannister  ║       10       ║ Ideal Conditions ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════╬══════════════════╣
║   Janei Lannister  ║       11       ║ Ideal Conditions ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════╬══════════════════╣
║  Tygett Lannister  ║       12       ║ Ideal Conditions ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════╬══════════════════╣
║   Tyrek Lannister  ║       13       ║ Ideal Conditions ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════╬══════════════════╣
║  Gerion Lannister  ║       14       ║ Ideal Conditions ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════╬══════════════════╣
║      Joy Hill      ║       15       ║ Ideal Conditions ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════╬══════════════════╣
║   Genna Lannister  ║       16       ║ Ideal Conditions ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════╬══════════════════╣
║     Cleos Frey     ║       17       ║ Ideal Conditions ║
╚════════════════════╩════════════════╩══════════════════╝

But in reality and by legal impacts, the line of succession becomes this as per show:

╔════════════════════╦════════════════════════╦══════════════════════╦══════════════════════════════════════════════════╗
║      Claimaint     ║ Number in Line (Books) ║ Number in Line(Show) ║                      Remarks                     ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════════════╬══════════════════════╬══════════════════════════════════════════════════╣
║   Jaime Lannister  ║           NA           ║          NA          ║    Disinherited as per vows of KG- See spoiler   ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════════════╬══════════════════════╬══════════════════════════════════════════════════╣
║  Tyrion Lannister  ║           NA           ║          NA          ║ Disinherited and wanted for murder of his father ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════════════╬══════════════════════╬══════════════════════════════════════════════════╣
║  Cersei Lannister  ║        Incumbent       ║       Incumbent      ║                   Current Lady                   ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════════════╬══════════════════════╬══════════════════════════════════════════════════╣
║  Joffrey Baratheon ║           NA           ║          NA          ║                       Dead                       ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════════════╬══════════════════════╬══════════════════════════════════════════════════╣
║  Tommen Baratheon  ║            1           ║           1          ║               See Spoiler at bottom              ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════════════╬══════════════════════╬══════════════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ Myrcella Baratheon ║            2           ║          NA          ║         Dead as per show, alive in books         ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════════════╬══════════════════════╬══════════════════════════════════════════════════╣
║   Kevan Lannister  ║            3           ║           2          ║               See Spoiler at bottom              ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════════════╬══════════════════════╬══════════════════════════════════════════════════╣
║  Lancel Lannister  ║           NA           ║          NA          ║     Disinherited due to joining the Sparrows     ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════════════╬══════════════════════╬══════════════════════════════════════════════════╣
║  Martyn Lannister  ║            4           ║          NA          ║  Killed by Lord Karstark in show, alive in books ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════════════╬══════════════════════╬══════════════════════════════════════════════════╣
║  Willem Lannister  ║           NA           ║          NA          ║              Killed by Lord Karstark             ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════════════╬══════════════════════╬══════════════════════════════════════════════════╣
║   Janei Lannister  ║            5           ║          NA          ║               Not mentioned in Show              ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════════════╬══════════════════════╬══════════════════════════════════════════════════╣
║  Tygett Lannister  ║           NA           ║          NA          ║                       Dead                       ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════════════╬══════════════════════╬══════════════════════════════════════════════════╣
║   Tyrek Lannister  ║           NA           ║          NA          ║   Missing, presumed Dead. Not mentioned in show  ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════════════╬══════════════════════╬══════════════════════════════════════════════════╣
║  Gerion Lannister  ║           NA           ║          NA          ║                       Dead                       ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════════════╬══════════════════════╬══════════════════════════════════════════════════╣
║      Joy Hill      ║           NA           ║          NA          ║          Bastard - Ineligible to inherit         ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════════════╬══════════════════════╬══════════════════════════════════════════════════╣
║   Genna Lannister  ║            6           ║           3          ║  Tywin's sister, don't know if mentioned in show ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════════════╬══════════════════════╬══════════════════════════════════════════════════╣
║     Cleos Frey     ║           NA           ║          NA          ║                       Dead                       ║
╚════════════════════╩════════════════════════╩══════════════════════╩══════════════════════════════════════════════════╝

By filtering out dead and disinherited characters, we get the following line:

╔════════════════════╦════════════════════════╦══════════════════════╦════════════════════════════╗
║      Claimaint     ║ Number in Line (Books) ║ Number in Line(Show) ║           Remarks          ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════════════╬══════════════════════╬════════════════════════════╣
║  Cersei Lannister  ║        Incumbent       ║       Incumbent      ║        Current Lady        ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════════════╬══════════════════════╬════════════════════════════╣
║  Tommen Baratheon  ║            1           ║           1          ║    See spoiler at bottom   ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════════════╬══════════════════════╬════════════════════════════╣
║ Myrcella Baratheon ║            2           ║          NA          ║   Dead according to show   ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════════════╬══════════════════════╬════════════════════════════╣
║   Kevan Lannister  ║            3           ║           2          ║  See spoiler at the bottom ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════════════╬══════════════════════╬════════════════════════════╣
║  Martyn Lannister  ║            4           ║          NA          ║ Dead according to the show ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════════════╬══════════════════════╬════════════════════════════╣
║   Janei Lannister  ║            5           ║          NA          ║  Not mentioned in the show ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════════════╬══════════════════════╬════════════════════════════╣
║   Genna Lannister  ║            6           ║           3          ║             NA             ║
╚════════════════════╩════════════════════════╩══════════════════════╩════════════════════════════╝

Jaime can't be lord because of his vows. Tyrion is an attainted traitor and wanted murderer besides. That leaves us with Cersei. With her death, the seat will pass to Tommen No-Kidding-Baratheon unless Tyrion lands in Westeros with Daenerys and makes sure that his sister does die.

In the books, she appoints one of her cousins as acting Warden of the West and another cousin as Castellan of Casterly Rock while she resumes regency of Iron Throne in KL. She refuses to go to Casterly Rock when her uncle reminds her that she is the lady of the Rock and her place is there.

Can't say if they have included this in show but even in show wiki, Cersei is the current lady of Casterly Rock.

Following are two family trees providing a visual info of claimants and their status.

Line of Succession as per Show

enter image description here

Line of Succession as per Books

enter image description here

Spoiler Alert:

According to Epilogue of A Dance with Dragons, Kevan is dead at hands of Varys. Which means he is also out of the race with his son Martyn now 3rd in LoS and daughter Janei 4th. His sister Genna ascends to 5th

Show Spoilers for Season 6 Episodes 6 & 10:

Tommen dismissed Jaime from Service as Kingsguard. He is now eligible to inherit the Rock and thus is the heir apparent as per show canon given that Tommen has committed suicide and is thus eliminated from the line. Lancel was also killed in destruction of Sept of Baelor.


EDIT: I did some further research w.r.t Books in order to find out Lannister claimants other than line of Tytos Lannister and link the other known Lannisters to the line.

Bear in mind that answer above deals only with the Line of Tytos Lannister.

Now moving back in Lannister family tree, We see that Grandfather of Cersei, Jaime and Tyrion, Lord Tytos Lannister had another brother named Ser Jason Lannister.

Ser Jason fathered numerous children which include:

  1. Joanna Lannister who married her cousin, Tywin Lannister. Tywin was at that time heir to the Casterly Rock and Hand of the King. She died giving birth to Tyrion.
  2. Ser Stafford Lannister. He was killed by Lord Rickard Karstark in Battle of Oxcross.
  3. Damon Lannister. It is unknown whether he is alive or dead.
  4. Lynora Hill. She is presumably alive however it is unknown who she married or if she had children.
  5. 2 unnamed sons and 2 unnamed daughters.

Joanna, Stafford and Damon all had children and two of them at least had grandchildren. Joanna's children are of course the senior Branch and main line (Jaime, Cersei, Tyrion) along with their own descendants (Tommen and Myrcella).

Children of Stafford and Damon are listed below:

  1. Stafford Lannister
    1. Daven Lannister
    2. Cyrenna Lannister
    3. Myriella Lannister
  2. Damon Lannister
    1. Damion Lannister
      1. Lucion Lannister
      2. Lanna Lannister

Lanna Lannister is married to Lord Jast and her children are unknown along with children of her cousins.

So according to books, after the line of Genna Lannister and her Frey descendants, we get the following (known) people in line of succession:

╔════════════════════╦════════════════════════╦══════════════════════╦═════════════════════════════════╗
║      Claimaint     ║ Number in Line (Books) ║ Number in Line(Show) ║             Remarks             ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════════════╬══════════════════════╬═════════════════════════════════╣
║   Damon Lannister  ║            7           ║          NA          ║  Eldest son of Jason Lannister  ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════════════╬══════════════════════╬═════════════════════════════════╣
║  Damion Lannister  ║            8           ║          NA          ║                NA               ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════════════╬══════════════════════╬═════════════════════════════════╣
║  Lucion Lannister  ║            9           ║          NA          ║                NA               ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════════════╬══════════════════════╬═════════════════════════════════╣
║   Lanna Lannister  ║           10           ║          NA          ║       Married to Lord Jast      ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════════════╬══════════════════════╬═════════════════════════════════╣
║   Daven Lannister  ║           11           ║          NA          ║                NA               ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════════════╬══════════════════════╬═════════════════════════════════╣
║  Cyrenna Lannister ║           12           ║          NA          ║                NA               ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════════════╬══════════════════════╬═════════════════════════════════╣
║ Myriella Lannister ║           13           ║          NA          ║                NA               ║
╠════════════════════╬════════════════════════╬══════════════════════╬═════════════════════════════════╣
║    Lynorra Hill    ║           NA           ║          NA          ║ Bastard - ineligible to inherit ║
╚════════════════════╩════════════════════════╩══════════════════════╩═════════════════════════════════╝

A visual description of Jason's line will be:

enter image description here

Bear in mind, none of these characters are mentioned in the show.

  • 4
    If it's revealed that Tommen is the son of Jaime, would his claim take precedence over Cersei's? I suppose that's opening a can of worms, considering he'd then be a bastard, yet also King of Westeros... – TylerH May 16 '16 at 14:42
  • 7
    @TylerH Dont take my word on that, but I'm pretty sure that revealing he's Jaime's son would brand him as not only a bastard, but also the product of incest. Chances are he'd be taken down instantly. – JS Lavertu May 16 '16 at 15:50
  • 6
    Tommen Baratheon is presumably disqualified because he's king. When Robert became King, his brother Renly became Lord of Storm's End. (It clearly should have been Stannis, one reason that Stannis hated Renly.) – Peter Shor May 16 '16 at 17:07
  • 4
    @PeterShor Robert did not have to relinquish his holding of Stormlands. He chose to create two cadet branches of house baratheon based in stormsend and dragonstone by granting those lands to his brothers. Is there any canon reference to there being a law that King can only hold KL? – Aegon May 16 '16 at 20:07
  • 4
    I really think you need to put in a bit more effort with your answers. I mean, seriously, talk about phoning it in... ;-) (Great answer.) – T.J. Crowder May 17 '16 at 11:17
3

Kevan Lannister was the acting lord of the Casterly Rock, before Twyin was murdered.

I believe Tywin always wanted to believe that Jaime will assume the title. If it does not happen, Lancel Lannister is the first on the line of succession.

Lancel is also ineligible due to choosing Faith over family. It should go to some other member from the male member of the Lannisters.

  • @C.Kova - Was this ever mentioned in the tv series? Or have I just missed this point? Thank you for your answer:) – Phorce May 16 '16 at 10:26
  • 3
    Lannisters aren't Ironborn who exclude women from line of succession. A child of Tywin still lives and isn't disinherited by vows or deeds. That Child is Cersei Lannister. – Aegon May 16 '16 at 10:36
  • 1
    @NSNoob Tyrion explicitly wanted the Rock from Tywin as his birthright. Tyrion is younger than Cersei, so if the Rock is his birthright at one point, it means they exclude women from the line of succession. The only family, to the best of my knowledge, who do not distinguish women from line of succession is Dorne. – C.Koca May 16 '16 at 10:55
  • 3
    Andal Custom says Younger Son comes before Elder daughter. Jaime and Tyrion are both younger than Cersei but they still are ahead of her in line of succession. What's your point? Jaime can't take the seat because of his vows and Tyrion is a murderer to be executed, thus attainted and a traitor to the crown. Which is why Cersei is the lady. – Aegon May 16 '16 at 10:58
  • 6
    Lancel, being a sparrow, forsook all claims to Casterly rock. – Matthew Stevenson May 16 '16 at 11:52
0

If I recall correctly, in the show when Robb and his banner men are discussing whether to support Stannis or Renly, Rob says that Renly can't inherit over Stannis because Stannis is older.

They never mentioned that Stannis's daughter has more claim over Renly, this would have been a big deal, because rather then being second in LOS, Renly would have been third.

Women in medieval times did not inherit because they do not remain within their house. A perfect example is the fact that all of Cersei's children are surnamed 'Baratheon'.

Why would house Lannister ever be ruled by a Baratheon when there are still Lannisters to rule it?

I would assume it would pass to Kevan due to this.

  • They never mentioned that Shireen did not have a more stronger claim than her uncle Renly either. IF Stannis had ascended to the Iron Throne, he would have made Shireen Princess of Dragonstone (At least in the books, In the show after all House Baratheon is now extinct). They were only discussing who to support in WOFK. – Aegon May 18 '16 at 4:56
  • Also, this is not a first time that some other dynasty took control of another dynasty. Usually the new holder takes the name of the other family i.e. in this case Lannister. Tommen can't do that as he is the King as well, which remains a Baratheon. If you read history of House Lannister, this won't be first time that House Lannister continued from female line. Male direct line of House Lannister died out long ago when King Gerold III Lannister died without a son, his grandson from his only daughter, Ser Joffrey Lydden became King of Westerland and renamed himself Joffrey Lannister – Aegon May 18 '16 at 4:58
  • So, House Lannister today is in fact descended from House Lydden even though there were Lannisters of Lannisport still when Joffrey Lydden was chosen. Tommen may choose to bestow the seat on Kevan Lannister but that would be his royal prerogative, he wouldn't be compelled to as he is direct descendant of the former Lord Tywin Lannister. – Aegon May 18 '16 at 5:09
  • I see, well I have one more thought. If cersei is in fact the head of house Lannister now then why does kevan treat her like she's nothing speciall? Before he became hand he made this statement to cersei, "I do not recognize your authority to dictate what is and is not my concern. You are the Queen Mother. Nothing more!" At this point Tywin is dead so cersei would be head of the house. – Tim May 18 '16 at 21:04
  • can't speak for the script writers. One speculation would be while Kevan gave fealty to his brother, he never swore any allegiance to Cersei. Thus he is not bound to serve her as he is no longer sworn to Casterly Rock. – Aegon May 20 '16 at 7:09
0

Ser Daven Lannister, son of Stafford Lannister is acting Lord of Casterly Rock. Well he is in the books which should translate to the show as there is no one else eligible

  • The show version of Game of Thrones is different enough that this isn't at all certain. – Bellatrix Oct 2 '17 at 2:39
-2

Didn't Jaime get released from his vows and the kingsguard by Tommen? Therefore he would be allowed to inherit both title and land. I believe Jaime should be back up to the top of the list now as an eligible heir to the Lordship of Casterly Rock.

  • 1
    Bear in mind this is not a new question, but an answer that has a statement of clarification. – Edlothiad Jul 10 '17 at 19:49
  • See the content under the heading Show Spoilers for Season 6 Episodes 6 & 10: – Aegon Jul 11 '17 at 7:14

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