In Wheel of time, it is said that if thirteen Myrddraal and thirteen Dreadlords together can "forcibly" turn any channeler to the shadow. Is there a process which can be used to do the opposite/undo this?

EDIT: Baard Kopperud's comment makes me think that the forcible conversion of some dark characters may be against the "spirit" of light. However, I remember reading somewhere that the stronger one's faith is in light the stronger his pull in the Dark One once he is turned.

I understand there is not "Lightspawn" to work it exactly the same as turning, but has some instance been in the books that the turning was undone?

  • 1
    It's probably possible, but given some pieces of the "world without Shadow" that was seen, it's not likely to be a good thing.
    – Radhil
    Sep 13, 2016 at 12:47
  • 2
    They could probably do something similar... But the "problem" is that the Light/GoodGuyes often can't use the same methods as the Dark/BadGuys - because the methods themselves are Dark/Bad. If they did, then the result would be "tainted"... besides, the Good Guys would perhaps not be so Good? It's like "Bombing for Peace"... Sep 13, 2016 at 15:53
  • Could someone explain why the downvotes, and what can be done to improve the question?
    – Arcane
    Sep 14, 2016 at 8:17
  • Is this asking about "curing" the ones Turned or about analogical process, which could be done to anyone to make them "better"?
    – Mithoron
    Sep 26, 2019 at 21:20

3 Answers 3


Yeah, Rand. To turn someone to the shadow is to place literal strings from the DO on someone. If they do this willingly, they remain themselves only linked to the DO. If they do this unwillingly, they become husks linked to the DO. It's the same result, but forcibly seems to be the lesser product. Rand seems to be the only one who has managed to undo this. You could say Asmodean was forcibly turned to the light when Rand fought him for the Choedan Kal at the end of tSR. He physically severed the strings that tied him to the DO, which made him no longer bound to the shadow, and made him vulnerable to the Taint. He was essentially turned back into a "light friend," if by force. The DO, in the prologue of tFoH, even tells Demandred that Asmodean's weakness has led to him being lost to them. The DO was speaking as if he was dead even though Asmodean was still very much alive, but he was no longer tied to the shadow, so to the DO he might as well have been dead.


Unlikely but its not mentioned in the books, the only problem with that would be you'd be able to use regular channelers in the place of dreadlords, but finding a replacement for the Myrddraal would be more difficult as they are absolutely necessary for it to happen as their power is derived from the true power which is an extension of the Dark One unlike saidar or saidin.

Since the Technique requires the true power to be accomplished its unlikely, that there would be one that works the opposite as it due to the nature of the true power.

Although reversing the process could be possible, similar to how Nynaeve heals the madness perhaps requiring a circle.


This question bugged me quite a lot and I think I may have finally found the relevant quotes that may answer to the limit its possible. Emphasis mine.

TOR Questions of the Week, February 2005-July 2005
Week 15 Question: When a channeler is forcibly turned to the Dark, is his/her former personality lost to eternity? Are they in a permanent state of mindless Compulsion? Furthermore, can a channeler forcibly turned to the Dark return to the Light unaided?
Robert Jordan Answers: They are not in a mindless state of Compulsion. Their former personality is twisted, the darker elements that everyone has to some degree elevated while what might be called the good elements are largely suppressed. I don't mean things like courage, which is useful even to villains, but they are unlikely to be very charitable, for example, and forget any altruistic impulses. Call it being turned into a mirror image of yourself in many ways. It is very unlikely that a channeler forcibly turned to the Shadow could find a way back to the Light unaided. For one reason, by virtue of the twisting he or she had undergone, it is very unlikely that he or she would have any desire to do so.

Towers of Midnight book tour 16 November 2010 WH Smith, Paris, France - Ayyad Azryelle reporting
Q: Can people who were forced to become Darkfriends through a 13-13 circle be saved?
Brandon: He said he couldn't give an answer, but that the characters from the books would say yes.

Both Jordan and Sanderson seem to suggest that the Channelers once turned can be "saved". Jordan's answer seems to suggest that with some aid from others they can be turned back to light. While Sanderson gave his usual answer for the Wheel of time books.

My personal conclusion for this is that with some help from the people that shared a connection with the "turned" Channelers, they can be saved/turned back to light. However, they will never be the "same". I think they will stay in the same state as that of Logain, i.e. more colder, harsh and distant, but essentially for good.

  • 1
    In AMoL: "I TURN MEN TO ME, Shai'tan said. IT IS TRUE. THEY CANNOT CHOOSE GOOD ONCE I HAVE MADE THEM MINE IN THAT WAY." but of course, he's the Father of Lies, so that might be another lie -- although this is right after Rand weaves the world without the Dark One.
    – Giuseppe
    Jan 17, 2018 at 16:29

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service and acknowledge you have read our privacy policy.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.