Currently re-reading Appendix B of ROTK and my question arises from the following quote (The Second Age)

"but before the building of the Barad-dur many of the Sindar passed eastward, and some established realms in the forests far away, where their people were mostly Silvan Elves. Thranduil, king in he north was one of these..."

After doing some research I found one other quote possibly related to these other elven realms (The Hobbit p187)

"The wine, and other goods, were brought from far away, from their kinsfolk in the South, or from the vinyards of Men in distant lands".

This quote seems to be referring to other elves to the south. Some people seemed to think this was a reference to Dorwinion (east of the sea of Rhun) this would make sense as the barrels of wine did flow down The River Running.

I would love to know if there's any other information out there on Elves east/south of Mirkwood.

Do we know anything of these eastern realms?

Did they continue to thrive like Thranduil's realm in Mirkwood?

Were there other realms of elves who never crossed the Misty Mountains?

  • vinyards of Men - Dorwinion kinsfolk in the South - Lothlorien
    – Mithoron
    Commented Nov 15, 2016 at 13:35

1 Answer 1


One realm of the Silvan Elves that was south of Thranduil's realm in Mirkwood was Lothlórien. As with Thranduil's realm, most of the people were Silvan, but the rulers of Lothlórien (Galadriel and Celeborn) were not.

When the Fellowship reaches Lothlórien, we are told that its people speak the language of the Silvan Elves from east of the mountains.

There was a sound of soft laughter over their heads, and then another clear voice spoke in an elven-tongue. Frodo could understand little of what was said, for the speech that the Silvan folk east of the mountains used among themselves was unlike that of the West. Legolas looked up and answered in the same language.

The Lord of the Rings, Book 2, Chapter 6: Lothlórien

According to Appendix F, the language of Lothlórien was actually Sindarin but with a heavy Silvan accent.

In Lórien at this period Sindarin was spoken, though with an ‘accent’, since most of its folk were of Silvan origin. This ‘accent’ and his own limited acquaintance with Sindarin misled Frodo (as is pointed out in The Thain’s Book by a commentator of Gondor).

The Lord of the Rings, Appendix F: Of the Elves

Lothlórien appears to be thriving when the Fellowship stays there, and it is able to defend itself from the forces of Dol Guldur during the War of the Ring. Like the other elvish lands, it declines in the Fourth Age and appears to be deserted when Arwen goes there to die after the death of Aragorn.

But Arwen went forth from the House, and the light of her eyes was quenched, and it seemed to her people that she had become cold and grey as nightfall in winter that comes without a star. Then she said farewell to Eldarion, and to her daughters, and to allwhom she had loved; and she went out from the city of Minas Tirith and passed away to the land of Lo´ rien, and dwelt there alone under the fading trees until winter came. Galadriel had passed away and Celeborn also was gone, and the land was silent.

The Lord of the Rings, Appendix B: The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen

It is never described as a "realm", but we are told that some elves from Lothlórien lived for a while in the southern vale of Anduin. They had left Lothlórien with Amroth and Nimrodel to sail to the West from the Bay of Belfalas. Nimrodel was tragically lost in the White Mountains during that journey (as described in the Lay of Nimrodel), and apparently there were other elves who didn't reach the ships. Legolas referes to this when he meets Prince Imrahil.

At length they came to the Prince Imrahil, and Legolas looked at him and bowed low; for he saw that here indeed was one who had elven-blood in his veins. ‘Hail, lord!’ he said. ‘It is long since the people of Nimrodel left the woodlands of Lo´ rien, and yet still one may see that not all sailed from Amroth’s haven west over water.’

‘So it is said in the lore of my land,’ said the Prince; ‘yet never has one of the fair folk been seen there for years beyond count...

The Lord of the Rings, Book 5, Chapter 9: The Last Debate

Any "realm" that may have existed in this area is clearly not thriving at the time of the War of the Ring.

  • 2
    Legolas is identifying himself as a Silvan Elf there. The Elves of Hollin/Eregion were Noldor. Commented Nov 15, 2016 at 3:25
  • @suchiuomizu I see how it can be read that way, however Legolas is Sindar. His father is one of the Sindar who rule kingdoms of Silvan Elves that were mentioned in the first quote in the question. I was thinking that Hollin was a similar case where the leaders were Noldor but most of the people were Silvan. I'll see if I can find any evidence of that and if not, I'll remove the reference to Hollin.
    – Blackwood
    Commented Nov 15, 2016 at 13:24
  • @suchiuomizu I have found no reference to Silvan elves in Hollin (Eregion), so I have removed that section. Thanks for pointing that out.
    – Blackwood
    Commented Nov 15, 2016 at 14:20
  • @Blackwood Thanks for the in depth look at Lothlórien, and I did completely forget of the Nimrodel story. Now I'm just looking if there are any other known communities of elves east of the mountains (besides Lorien and Mirkwood)
    – Tom B.
    Commented Nov 15, 2016 at 16:50
  • Celeborn was Silvan (from Appendix B in Return of the King): "Celeborn, kinsman of Thingol". Thingol saw the light of the trees, but never returned to Aman until he was slain. So Celeborn, his kinsman, never went to Aman at all until the Fourth Age. Galadriel indeed was Noldor. Commented Aug 18, 2023 at 13:41

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