71

The Sith order doesn't literally require its members to be evil; It merely states how they access and use the Force. This raises the question if there are any Sith that can be described as intentionally doing "good" (Darth Sidious occasionally did good things as side effects of his plotting and bigger evil plan)?

We know that Master Windu (as well as Luke Skywalker) stepped really close to the Dark Side, while remaining still technically Jedi. I'm thinking about clearly crossing the line to the Dark Side and officially being a Sith, but still intentionally producing some positive outcome.

In this context, "good" should be subject to any reasonable interpretation of the word. For instance, enslaving half the galaxy (and killing the other half) "to finally have peace" (Sidious quote) is certainly not "good", although Sidious may have been convinced it was.


Edit: Regarding the good/evil (moral/immoral) discussion in the comments. This is Star Wars lingo. The language of Star Wars (in contrast to reality) dictates a more or less black and white picture on morality and therefore "good" can be considered as being an action, according to the Star Wars definition of "good".

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    Folks, take the discussions of Vader's motivations and the nature of good and evil in the Star Wars universe to chat. (or have it inspire you to ask more questions on the subject!) – user1027 May 2 '12 at 1:08
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    The difference between what's good and what's evil Comes down to who wins at the end of the day. – user26551 May 23 '14 at 16:45
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    "Jedi good, Sith bad" is Jedi propaganda. Star Wars is history written by the winners. – user14111 Dec 9 '15 at 6:58
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    From my perspective, most Sith were good. They aren't self-righteous, hypocritical, celibate, one-sided, control freaks like the Jedi scum. – Hack-R Jul 17 '16 at 5:26

12 Answers 12

88

Darth Vectivus

From Legacy of the Force: Betrayal:

Jacen Solo: "Never heard of him."

Lumiya: "That's because he did no evil. He didn't attempt to conquer the galaxy, try to wipe out the population of a star system, or start an all-out war with the Jedi. He just existed, learned. Died of old age, surrounded by family and friends."

Wookieepedia has more, but in summary:

Upon his own ascension to Dark Lord of the Sith, Darth Vectivus retained the principles and ethical standing of his previous existence. With that foundation he avoided the trappings of the Sith who preceded him; he was never motivated by galactic domination or an all-consuming hatred of the Jedi, and he instead chose to live the remainder of his days luxuriously in the company of his loved ones. However, Vectivus was still a ruthless individual, partly connected to his background as a businessman, and was willing to do whatever it took to succeed, a trait he promoted in others as well.

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    +1, great answer, and as some commentary I offer that because of the nature of a Sith, being driven by and drawing power from his passion, it would be hard to imagine one not being ruthless and mean when a negative feeling took him, despite overall being motivated to "do good" or "help others", in the way that Vader was motivated by a desire to see peace and justice in the universe but was ruthless in his means. – Nathan C. Tresch Apr 30 '12 at 19:59
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    Another similar example could be Mara Jade. She wasn't a Sith, but she was trained to use the Dark Side of the Force. She mentions in 'I, Jedi', that when she is trained by Luke to be a Jedi, all she is really doing is learning to use a new fuel source for her powers. She remained the same person she always was though. Jumping universes, Jim Butcher attempted to tackle this question in the Dresden Files book 'White Knight'. "'Constructive anger,' the demon said... 'Also known as passion,' I said quietly, 'Passion has overthrown tyrants and feed prisoners and slaves..." With this, I agree – Cam May 1 '12 at 6:59
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    @Xphile I tried to avoid all the "redeemed Dark Jedi" or "Jedi turned to the Dark Side out of desire to do good" examples; they seemed a bit too easy. – Domenic May 1 '12 at 13:03
  • @Domenic yeah, your answer was definitely better than mine for that reason. – Nathan C. Tresch May 1 '12 at 16:33
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    Darth Stevejobs, sounds like. – Chris B. Behrens Jul 23 '14 at 20:39
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I find that Star Wars is far too black and white, with characters all occurring as archetypes of an arbitrary standard of "good" and "evil". Sidious was clearly not good, but Vader, on the other hand, was motivated from good, and had he succeeded in recruiting Luke and striking down the Emperor, then conquering the Galaxy, would more people be better off in the government that followed? Maybe, as Vader's motivation was to stop bad things from happening by being in a position to tell everyone what to do. Is that what "good" is? I don't know, if Vader's government lasted a thousand years and there was peace and prosperity for that long, maybe the end justified the means and he is "good"?

Were there Sith who were motivated by good and intended to do good in the universe? Yes. Here is a source that appears to be considered canonical in which a Sith is being honored by the Republic as a good hero. He started as a Jedi, but fell from grace willingly:

From the command deck of the Star Forge, Darth Revan declared himself Dark Lord of the Sith and took Malak as his apprentice. And thus with the newly created fleet and the numerous former Republic military members with him, he created his own Sith Empire in direct opposition to the Sith Emperor and his Empire.

However, later he ultimately decides to turn on Malak:

According to canon, Revan returned as a Jedi Knight who stopped the Sith forces under Malak's control and destroyed the Star Forge.

This makes the distinction that he returned as a Jedi, but, what does that really mean? If we take Sith to mean the way that the practitioner of the Force draws his power, as is suggested in the movies and your question, it's fair to say that he was ruled by his passion and therefore he was a Sith.

Sith is a discipline, in the expanded universe there can be good Sith. Sith who follow the path of light even appear in the officially licensed SW:KOTOR game as choices for player characters.

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    The SW:TOR MMO expands on Revan's story, but I will add that it does introduce some Pureblood Sith characters, such as Lord Praven and Lord Scourge, who can help the Jedi Knight to defeat the Emporer. – Joshua Shane Liberman Apr 30 '12 at 18:05
  • @JoshuaShaneLiberman Lord Scourge... with a name like that, he's gotta be a bad guy – Daft Dec 23 '14 at 14:23
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    He is a Sith Warrior, and a True Sith, but can become a companion and an ally of the Jedi Knight. Defeating him in combat gives him pause enough to consider that the Dark Side is not the ultimate source of power. – Joshua Shane Liberman Dec 24 '14 at 3:12
15

Darth Gravid, he believed there was room for the light side of the force, compassion and altruism in the Sith order. Sadly, he went nuts trying to do, figured the only way to save the Sith was to destroy all its prior teachings and relics and was killed by his apprentice, but not before he destroyed not small number of Sith relics and holocrons. In a highly similar vein is Kel'eth ur, who believed that fear and passion, the emotions the Sith used most often to channel The Force, were lies, fear's power being fleeting and passion being easy to manipulate, arguing that true power came when you were no longer afraid. He claimed that although he was dead (this information being from a Holocron imprint of his personality), he was eternal and at peace, and that there was only The Force.

5

This is all WMG, but just judging by the various descriptions of the force throughout the games and books I've read it's easiest to think about it like a flowing river.

Your average person is unaware of it, they drift along, perhaps get snagged on the sides and cause a blockage now and then, but are otherwise unaffected and inconsequential to the greater flow individually.

A force-user however, has the strength to move about. To act for, or against, the flow of the force. A Jedi follows the will of the force, breaking up blockages and smoothing things along, letting the river flow peacefully. While a Sith does the opposite, stubbornly forcing themselves against the rivers current to where they want to go using their strength disruptively.

This is why Jedi have foresight, they actively work to make the waters of the force calm and clear, easy to see through, while the Sith's struggles and use of power stir up and muddy those same waters even as it accomplishes their goals.

This is also why the Sith path is quicker and easier, the hardship lets them either grow strong or succumb. But in the end, a Jedi of equal strength will always surpass them because they aren't fighting the current.

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    This is a good thought, but fails to answer the question asked. – phantom42 Dec 10 '14 at 19:00
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    Not explicitly, but implicitly. Can you perform a good act with disruptive methods? You sure can. All the Sith are really doing is fighting fate, if someones fate is cruel, then fighting that is a good act. – anon Dec 10 '14 at 19:46
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    The question isn't "Can there be a good Sith?", it was "Has there ever been a good Sith?". You implicitly answer that they can be good, but don't touch upon whether or not any have done so. – phantom42 Dec 10 '14 at 19:50
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    It's a fair enough point to argue that there could be, as the spirit of the question was not limited to an actual example. I just thought it might not be answerable whether or not there could be a good Sith, so I asked for evidence. But this analogy is quite interesting as well and addresses the question. +1 – bitmask Dec 10 '14 at 22:26
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Darth Revan was a Sith that aided the Jedi due to a memory wipe and defeated Darth Malak. Revan was a Jedi and turned to the dark side and became a Sith master. This was self proclaimed by Revan and he took Darth Malak as his apprentice. After being injured the Jedi took the opportunity to wipe his memories and had him believe his life was different than how it really took place. Revan was also a great fighter.

  • What is your source for this? It might be helpful to you to read the Tour in the help section to get a better feel of what we try to accomplish with this site. We're not like most forums. – Meat Trademark Jan 12 '14 at 8:02
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    This is from Knights of the Old Republic computer game. – Chahk May 23 '14 at 18:30
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    My memories of KotOR are a bit rusy, but weren't there hints that, even before the mind-wipe, Revan wasn't truly evil but in fact trying to save the galaxy from a greater (and unnamed AFAIK) evil? Sith-dom was the way he found to do this, but he wasn't really interested in conquering the galaxy, right? – Andres F. Dec 10 '14 at 21:28
2

"Remember: abilities are not inherently good or evil, it's how you use them." ―Kyle Katarn

It is entirely possible for a Sith to be a force for good. Sith teachings(1) only dictate that passion (emotion) be used as their source of strength. While this often leads them to be ruthless and power-hungry, that is not by any means a prerequisite of being a Sith. While most Sith trained their apprentices to be evil, that practice was due more to tradition than the principles of the Sith Order. I'm not sure what the exact wording was, but as Darth Nox in SWtOR, I taught the Sith Code to an apprentice in a similar manner to this:

"Peace is a lie, there is only passion.

"Where the Jedi say that ‘there is no emotion, there is peace’, they are speaking of the idea that one should not let their emotions rule them in their daily lives. Sith, on the other hand, believe that the Jedi are wrong. There is no real way to take emotion out of decision making. Humans are beings made of emotions. Our passions are what drive us forward to be the best of whatever we pursue in life.

"Through passion, I gain strength.

"In passion, we find ourselves wanting to do better…to be the best at what we can be. In this passion, we grow stronger. This is strength of ability and of character. It is how we define who we are… our passions are us."(2)

Just as everyone in real life has their own philosophies about life, so do the Sith. While the majority are evil, there are occasional exceptions.

If you want to see my sources, they're here. You will need to know the footnote number.

-1

A grey-jedi and a Sith has a more defined concept of how one totally lives life. There is a difference between being a Jedi/Sith zealot, being a Jedi/Sith, and being a grey-jedi, one who does not try to understand or make a religion of the force, but has a spiritual concept and relationship of the Force without need to understand it. Such grey-jedis can use both areas of the Force, which if you ask me, is a full embrace of the Force... If you have embrace the Light fully then you are just as corrupt as one who embraces the Dark (we are talking about you, Palpatine!)... Many ways, Luke Skywalker is a grey-jedi, due that he uses a lot of emotion. However, I often wonder, if not question, if Snoke could be total Sith, due that he seems too fervent in logic and reason then he does emotion. So he would make a bad Sith. If you look into his eyes, it's a mixture a dead blue and darkness, not like a Sith or a Jedi. He is too cold, more machine then Darth Vader in his personality. He is not really one who fears easily... And that I doubt he could have the emotional attachment of love.

-1

I think it depends on how we are looking at it. Jedi and Sith may have the power to use the force, but it is not entirely light or dark. It depends how someone is using the force. When we look at the codes of the Jedi and the Sith, we see how their perspective of the force works. But I think that both codes are not truly right, and they are still incomplete.

If the Jedi say that "there is no emotion, there is peace" then why are we born with emotions? And if the Sith say that "Peace is a lie, there is only Passion", how do they know that there is only Passion. And what is Peace? How can we beings know what Peace is.

There must be a reason of why we are born with negative and positive emotions. Maybe emotions are more controlled instincts and when we are feeling those different emotions then maybe we are more connected to nature then we think. And I think that there can be good Sith, but I don't know if they are more like Revan or if they are different. I think that the force is more like the Yin and Yang philosophy, that the light cannot exist without the dark and the other way around. And peace may be the balance between light and dark. Darkness alone is not evil it is just simply "there", and the light also simply exists. If I had to choose between Jedi and Sith I would be neither of them. I would fight naturally (means I would use both the Jedi techniques and the Sith techniques). And I would use both negative emotions and positive emotions. When I hate someone I would also try to forgive him/her and maybe I would grow mentally with that decision.

If a Sith is good then maybe he has the same opinion, even if he/she is more extreme in that manner.

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    Welcome to Science Fiction & Fantasy! While this is an interesting philosophical position, I think the question is looking for an individual character who was a Sith yet also "good". – Null Aug 9 '16 at 15:04
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Yes. As mentioned, a Sith of honour has dealt with fear, as a berserker he can channel any Natural arisals from a more powerful opponent. He can take another's fear and handle it shape it and direct it. He has both dark side and light side view Consider this, dark is the unknown, not evil at all but seductive and confusing, with evil lurking within. So very dangerous for Life and morality. Kind of throws things back on the ascetic Jedi. It may be likened to this: sith- shaman, Jedi - yogi

Darth Glimmer/Thomas Owens

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    OP was asking for examples, not for discussions. – Gallifreyan Apr 19 '17 at 14:17
-2

No - there's no good Sith. Sure their actions might cause some good - but their actions are selfish. As about Darth Vectivus

enter image description here Darth Vectivus was part of the Banite Sith Order - which is Bane's lineage. This Sith organization sought to destroy the Jedi from within via plotting, secrecy, and infiltration - not outright attacks and ambushes against The Republic and The Jedi Order. The Banite Lords' background is kept in anonymity - and you don't have access to their private lives.
Darth Vectivus is a Banite Sith. And these are the principles of the Banite Order:

"True power can come only to those who embrace the transformation. There can be no compromise. Mercy, compassion, loyalty: all these things will prevent you from claiming what is rightfully yours. Those who follow the dark side must cast aside these conceits. Those who do not—those who try to walk the path of moderation—will fail, dragged down by their own weakness. Those who accept the power of the dark side must also accept the challenge of holding on to it(...)" ―Darth Revan's avatar, to Darth Bane(Star Wars: Darth Bane: Path of Destruction)

It was Lumiya - who wanted to turn Jacen to the Dark Side - who told him that Vectivus was a "good" man.

As a Sith phantom(linked to Lumiya's essence)- he goaded a female Jedi Knight named Nelani Dinn to kill him - and give in to the Dark Side - supposedly to make her his own Sith apprentice. He even assumed Palpatine's likeness, and she didn't give in. So he felt pitty for her and warned her to leave. And he never revealed the person who Vectivus was linked to(which was Lumiya).

Now - this power tells us something about Vectivus. It needs a living host to summon a Sith phantasma - yet Vectivus was okay with it. It's quite possible he experimented with his family.(Star Wars: Legacy of The Force: Betrayal)

Vectivus continued Bane's lineage and eventually took an apprentice. It's possible his death was caused by his apprentice.

So - no. There is no good Sith.

Darth Gravid tried to implement Jedi guidelines in the Sith philosophy and got mad enough to destroy much of Bane's lineage Sith lore; his end came when his apprentice - Darth Gean - stopped him.(Star Wars: Darth Plagueis)

  • You seem to be quoting something, can you confirm where it's from and how it has bearing on the question – Valorum Oct 3 '18 at 21:44
  • The sources are the Darth Bane Trilogy and Legacy of The Force: Betrayal – Reverse Fuhrer Oct 9 '18 at 17:48
  • Can you please indicate (using > quote tags) which bits are written by you and which bits you've taken from other sources. You can then use the link button to add links to the books (I quite like to use links from Wookieepedia) – Valorum Oct 9 '18 at 18:12
  • But I did put these [ " " ] – Reverse Fuhrer Oct 26 '18 at 17:39
  • You have, but you've failed to confirm (in the post) where you've gotten these quotes from originally. – Valorum Oct 26 '18 at 17:41
-3

Nope. (not yet) But it's certainly possible to be Sith and neutral.

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    This answer adds nothing to the already accepted answer. – Dr R Dizzle Jul 9 '15 at 11:34
-4

There can be no "good" Sith. Our teachings rid the student of the concepts of good and evil, for they hinder your ability to properly channel the Force. We are merely conduits through which the Force flows; if we block one side because we perceive it to be good or bad, then we have upset the balance of energy in the entire galaxy. To be a true Sith is to make oneself a perfect vessel of the Force, allowing it to flow unrestricted, and to remove the sense of individuality that causes our moral decisions that disrupt the balance. Unless you want to sit in a meditation chamber for the rest of eternity, doing literally nothing aside from letting Force energy flow through you, there is no way besides death to achieve true Sithdom. So we do as all other creatures do; we take what we can use from the teachings and make good of what we have to better our existence. To be Sith is not to be good or evil, it is simply to be.

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    That's a nice essay, but is there actual support in canon for the write-up? – DVK-on-Ahch-To Jul 23 '14 at 19:48
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    "Sithdom" doesn't sound like an accurate term, even from the fandom. – Monty129 Jul 23 '14 at 20:05
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    @dvk - No, because this is a fanfic – Valorum Jul 23 '14 at 20:20

protected by KutuluMike Apr 22 '17 at 14:11

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