In the video game Middle Earth: Shadow of War, the protagonist Talion ends up disturbing the Spirit of Carnan, an Ent-like being who controls & defends her section of forest. Given that the Ents lost the Entwives long ago, and have even forgotten what they look like... could Carnan be one of the missing Entwives?

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    Related question : scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/70777/… Commented Oct 12, 2017 at 3:57
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    Sure, the developers maybe intended her to be one. Who knows what other stupid things they might have done. Tolkien believed they probably all died (most likely in the Second Age too) but they wouldn't care about something like that. Commented Oct 12, 2017 at 4:00
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    Everything is non-canon that this game produces, it should be forbidden from portraying the image of tolkien's legendarium
    – Edlothiad
    Commented Oct 12, 2017 at 5:24
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    I haven't played the second game, but honestly I don't understand the hate for the franchise. Personally, I think it's a great take on an alternate version of Middle Earth, which AFAIK is all it was ever intended to be.
    – Omegacron
    Commented Oct 12, 2017 at 17:47
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    @Omegacron I think a lot of the hate comes from the fact that it is an "alternate version of Middle Earth," regardless of quality.
    – KSmarts
    Commented Oct 13, 2017 at 19:06

4 Answers 4


She is a spirit of nature.

According to the producer and director, he doesn't think The Spirit is an Ent-wife but that she would definitely know Entish.

She is a spirit of nature. She could be a Maiar. I don’t think she is an Ent-wife, but I think she probably knows what happened to them. She definitely would be able to speak Entish, but she is definitely a representation of the spirit of nature and what would happen to that if it was in somewhere oppressed by darkness, industry and horror as Mordor is.”
Michael de Plater during live stream

  • Possibly taken from this video but can't check right now
    – Edlothiad
    Commented Oct 12, 2017 at 5:50
  • I can't parse "According to the producer and director says . . ." Is there a typo? It would make sense if you deleted either "according to" or else "says".
    – user14111
    Commented Oct 13, 2017 at 0:06
  • It would appear you parsed fine ;) you're more than welcome to edit clear grammatical mistakes in my posts.
    – Edlothiad
    Commented Oct 13, 2017 at 1:49

Edlothiad has given an excellent "Word of God" answer. I would like to explain why the character in the game would not be an appropriate choice for an Entwife if the game had attempted to be true to the books.

The Ents and Entwives grew apart

Treebeard tells Merry and Pippin that the Ents and Entwives grew apart because the Ents loved the great trees and the wild woods:

But the Entwives gave their minds to the lesser trees, and to the meads in the sunshine beyond the feet of the forests; and they saw the sloe in the thicket, and the wild apple and the cherry blossoming in spring, and the green herbs in the waterlands in summer, and the seeding grasses in the autumn fields. They did not desire to speak with these things; but they wished them to hear and obey what was said to them. The Entwives ordered them to grow according to their wishes, and bear leaf and fruit to their liking; for the Entwives desired order, and plenty, and peace (by which they meant that things should remain where they had set them). So the Entwives made gardens to live in.

The Lord of the Rings Book Three, Chapter 4: Treebeard
Page 475-6 (Single volume 50th Anniversary Edition)

The Entwives no longer live among trees

The Entwives became gardeners or farmers. Indeed, it seems to me that the split between the Ents and the Entwives is intended to recall the changes in human society with the birth of agriculture.

... After the Darkness was overthrown the land of the Entwives blossomed richly, and their fields were full of corn. Many men learned the crafts of the Entwives and honoured them greatly; but we were only a legend to them, a secret in the heart of the forest.

The Lord of the Rings Book Three, Chapter 4: Treebeard
Page 476 (Single volume 50th Anniversary Edition)

The Entwives no longer look like Ents

The appearance of the Entwives changed greatly, so that I don't think they would look anything like the character in the game. Treebeard says:

‘I remember it was long ago – in the time of the war between Sauron and the Men of the Sea – desire came over me to see Fimbrethil again. Very fair she was still in my eyes, when I had last seen her, though little like the Entmaiden of old. For the Entwives were bent and browned by their labour; their hair parched by the sun to the hue of ripe corn and their cheeks like red apples.

The Lord of the Rings Book Three, Chapter 4: Treebeard
Page 476 (Single volume 50th Anniversary Edition)

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    My one issue with your answer (as I myself was tempted to include the same discussion) is that you're trying to justify their actions using canon, when it is an entirely non-canonical game, they really could do whatever they wanted for the mass of people that aren't aware of the legendarium. Or of them to the extent we may be.
    – Edlothiad
    Commented Oct 13, 2017 at 10:24
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    @Edlothiad I see what you mean, but I think it's almost always possible to discuss whether a particular aspect is consistent with the books or not.
    – Blackwood
    Commented Oct 13, 2017 at 11:42
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    Sure, if they intended to stay consistent with the books. Your answer is excellent and provides great details on ent-wives, but they're not trying to be consistent. They're just trying to make money with a set of books Tolkien sold the rights to long ago. Oh btw, might be worth mentioning she's way taller than 14ft (the height of an ent)
    – Edlothiad
    Commented Oct 13, 2017 at 12:00
  • @Edlothiad - I think I disagree on her height. She moves around in the dark a lot, so I could be wrong (I only watched the one cutscene online), but in the screenshot I used she appears to be a little more than twice Talion's height. Assuming he and Celebrimbor are around 6ft. tall, that would make her about 15ft. or so
    – Omegacron
    Commented Oct 13, 2017 at 20:45
  • @Omegacron To me she looks to be more around 18-20 feet, she looks like her thing is about the height of their heads. Bear in mind she's also further away.
    – Edlothiad
    Commented Oct 13, 2017 at 21:02

It says in the game appendices "like the Entwives" so I guess she's not, but close?

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    An expanded quote with better attribution would improve this answer.
    – Politank-Z
    Commented Oct 14, 2017 at 3:51

As far as I can tell she seems almost a parallel to yavanna, the valar of growing things. Maybe she's supposed to be a servant of yavanna? Idk. Most of my knowledge comes from the legendarium of the books and these games, as great as they are, are vastly different to the books in terms of lore

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    This would be better if you could edit in some evidence to back this up.
    – TheLethalCarrot
    Commented Nov 3, 2018 at 11:25

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