Why are Stargates in Stargate Universe "less advanced" yet have more advanced capabilities?

Question

Just rewatched Stargate Universe and something they said at the beginning of S1 confused me: They stated that the stargates seeded by the seed ships and the one on board Destiny were "less advanced" than the Milky way or Pegasus models. What makes the Destiny gates "less advanced" is the fact that they can't dial beyond a certain range; they can only dial "planets in range" which usually only number in the 1-4.

We know this isn't a power issue - the ship can fly through a star after all, pretty sure it can compete with a Naquadah generator to power a gate. Destiny's stargate can dial the nine chevron address to Earth if it has enough power.

So, the less advanced gate can't connect to stargates a few hundred or few thousand light years away, but can connect to a stargate several billion light years away? What could possibly make those gates be so primitive yet so equally advanced? Shouldn't destiny be capable of dialing the entire galactic network, just like any other gate we've seen before SGU?

Answer 1

Being advanced doesn’t always mean having top capabilities. Advanced usually is more related with a trade off between cost, effectiveness and function.

A satellite phone is more convenient than mobile phones and you may think of them as being more advanced as you can just call from everywhere not like mobile phones but current mobile phones are way more advanced than old satellite phones and still some times you don’t get a signal. That doesn’t make the old satellite “more advanced” it makes the new ones a good trade off in the terms above.

New apple MacBook are unable to read cds or dvds and that doesn’t make them less advanced than 2007 models.

The stargate on the Destiny has a very specific purpose (it’s a satellite phone) and provides a functionality other don’t, probably with a huge impact in cost. The ones on the milky and Pegasus galaxy are more advanced but limited to the usage they were intended to have, as part of a static network with little changes. As such, they can establish and operate over huge distances without problem or degradation and requiring relatively little energy (at least from the ancients point of view).

Answer 2

Batteries Not Included

The ability to dial a nine-chevron address is less about the gate itself than the power source. Even with a "more advanced" Milky Way gate trying to dial out to Destiny, they still needed to supplement the power provided by the DHD. Humanity has come up with some good ways to provide alternative power (and control) to a stargate, but a DHD is always best for normal use cases.

Stargate SG1 established that the transmitting gate provides the power source to initiate and open a wormhole. Seeded gates lack a power source. They take instructions (and presumably power) from the handheld drone controller. It may be a very powerful device, but clearly cannot match a DHD (or Puddle Jumper), let alone Destiny herself or an Icarus-class planet.

Destiny manages this limitation by only allowing people onboard to visit gates within range of the capabilities of the remote dialer. Otherwise, they'd be unable to gate back to Destiny. Coincidentally, the remote dialer is powerful enough to jump from gate to gate within that basic range.

They Build Them Better Than They Used To...

There may also be a power management issue involved. Normally, gates are seen to be able to store and absorb an absurd amount of energy, including taking a severe pounding from weapons fire. By contrast, a single shot from a drone wrecks a seeded gate (in SGU 2x17: "Common Descent"). At the very minimum, this indicates they are physically more fragile and hints that they may be "electrically" less resilient as well. After all, they're intended for temporary use - in fact, some of them may never be used at all.

Answer 3

You're confusing the gate on Destiny with the planet-side gates. The Destiny expedition can likely dial out to any gate in the galaxy that Destiny is currently in. The only problem is that they can't get back, because the planet-side gates have no external power supply and therefore can't dial very far, which is why it's so important that anyone who’s on the planet gets back to Destiny before the clock runs down.

Answer 4

We may be operating under false assumptions. Perhaps Destiny's gates were intended to be less resource intensive being only partly made of naquada and easier for the seedships to make but never the oldest design.

Unfortunately the Stargate franchise has two incompatible "canon" continuities, (some of the) books and the comics from American Mythology. I can't speak to the books but without going into spoilers the comics contradict dates given in the TV series.

In fact those comics seem to place Destiny's launch well after the date given in SG1 for Atlantis' departure so it calls into question the idea that the Destiny style gates predate the Milky Way and Pegasus versions. This might explain why some capabilities seem more advanced than in gates that supposedly came after.

I'm not convinced of this myself as the American Mythology comics are loaded with poor proofreading. Typos you'd expect from autocomplete in a text, Roman numerals like "IV" and "VI" being used interchangeably... 90% of which is in the SGA continuation rather than SGU but it's enough to wonder if the retcon of Destiny's launch date wasn't just another typo, like 1,000,000 instead of 100,000,000.

But one interesting detail in these sequel series is that even the other types of stargates share the range limitation of Destiny style gates if cut off from the rest of the the gates in their network. This actually fits well as part of the explanation of how Earth was only able to dial Abydos and Ernest's planet without a DHD, before getting the Goa'uld and Ancient address lists.

But it at least seems plausible that these seedship gates would've been built diferently for the specific demands of Destiny's mission regardless of whether they came first or last.

Answer 5

Stargates in milky way and Pegasus galaxy don't actually individually send you to a planet several thousands of gates away. There where cross episodes between atlantis and SG that they put gates inbetween the galaxies. What happens in these gates is subspace connections are established making a route through each gate. Because of this they are also less advanced with each gate only being able to make a maximum set location to actually dial to. They can dial much further if there is other gates in the path of travel, in fact if there where gates between every galaxy they could dial to destiny like dialing to abidos.

Destiny or stargate universe gates have no limit on distance or energy they can absorb or go to. But unlike the technology that allows the path, they only make a straight conection, they need all the energy to make the connection instead of dispersing it.

In SG, and atlantis there are these rings that pop up when traveling. Although this had become a fancy graphics thing, in reality when traveling to abidos there should be none, but when traveling to the other side of the galaxy their would be thousands. If a gate is activated along the path, than the path would change. Which is why sometimes certain crew wind up here or their.

Sg in atlantis can travel beyond a certain point potentially up to around 32 different galaxies. But unlikely any further. If other galaxies are in there path it might act as a load decrease. If galaxies had stargates inbetween than the limit would be 32x32. Or a 9 gate address.

now why would universe/destiny gates not allow for a network? And only allow for a straight connection? If you had 100 gates of the hundreds of thousands of gates in a galaxy activated you may be using every gate in that galaxy to make all the connections with even some cross paths where as long as their is not vortexes than a single gate can join multiple connections.

The SGU gates are ment to communicate with "god" every galaxy it dails gates, does not need to create a vortex but dials them. Mind you the distance is only based on power, so when it stops for 24 hours it might dial hundreds of gates or thousands, not requiring as much power as no vortex is needed. Think about it like this calling on a landline, or making a 4k video call.

Ultimately all gates in the entire universe are likely to be needes to communicate, to even say hello. Destiny likely interpret what raw signal they get and downloads a response to be transmitted at a set date, to say hi.

There is actually 2 ships that make up atlantis not just one. Tera atlantis the one made on earth and tera fire, the one made on the planet that SG1 got the first Z-pm. Atantis the one that SG-atlantis was found and eventually made its way back to earth. The secound was found and was mostly underground by the atlantis tv show. Each piece such as atlantis has 3 standard z-pms and 3 landing pads, and 3 power conection points one for each ship. In atlantis these connection points where only used to absorb lightning. So a full number of z-pms is actually 6 per half or 12 total. As the final connection of the 2 ships was used as a plant core power supply. If the multiple destiny class ships are designed to have 2 seed ships connected one on each side. Although having significantly higher number of seed ships than just 2 per destiny class. It is highly doubtable that the altorans (atlantians) did not send out destiny class ships before leaving the ori galaxy. That is likely the reason why they left. As they already had the tech to communicate throughout distances of multitude of galaxies.

Even the supergate was likely thought up before leaving. I question why the power is limited in destiny. Now lets say gates can only travel to up to 32 galaxies, (8 symbols)

Lets understand that the minumum speed of Atlanta's and even in ori galaxy was about 1 to 2 weeks between galaxies. A max distance of about 10-16 galaxies, the universe is flat but galaxies is only 10-16 weeks away by ship, or about a few minutes away by star drive. Than you can easily put super gates more spread out. Not every galaxy would need a super gate. But the supergates can easily act like a milkyway and pegasus gate. In short distance only requiring 8 symbols but having an alternate gate address a standard 8 plus origin depecting a set address regarsless of location to make a connection too. It is in my belief that the reason why the fuel storage of destiny is lacking is that it is used for the next super gate. Mind you the minimum distance between super gates is likely at least every 16 galaxies if not even further, as you know the atlantians traveled 10,000 years of a rate of 2weeks between galaxies, now at that time galaxies where much closer. So could have even taken them 1 week between galaxies. So, 10,000x 12 is potentially 120,000 galaxy's distance. But the supergate with a sigularity can make the connection. If their is multiple supergates each with a sigularity each helping the connection than the distance is limitless.

Answer 6

Lets say when originally designed in the "ori" galaxy. The milkyway class gates could travel a distance of 8 times the distance of milkyway to pegasus at that time. The universe has expanded the distance is now much greater than when the gates where firat designed. Lets say now it can only travel up to 2 distances of milkyway/ pegasus. In a certain amount of time it will never be able to travel that distance.

Although the pegasus class gates may be an inbetween they are still primative compared to an ori class (milkyway class gate).

Meaning there was likely 2 designs from ori galaxy; a milkyway class gate, and a universe class gate. The pegasus class gate found in pegasus and also by the tollan. Meaning the tollan could still potentially travel both 6 galaxy distances and 1-unlimitde solar system distances.

It is highly likely that the nox also have the pegasus style gate design, but the ori never got it. As it is the most advanced gate although still will suffer the same results as a milkyway gate, just at a much later time.

Potentially a pegasus style gate may combine a universe gate (also called a supergate) and a milkyway gate abilities. Meaning not only does it have unlimited power absorption, but also can have a full range. Mind you the pegasus style gates where designed by the ancients while occuping the pegasus galaxy. As of that time, no intelligent life existed in the pegasus galaxy. The ancients decided to move from their settlements to include tera fire and tera atlantis (earth) and the other solarsystems that inhabited, only after discoverying the pegasus galaxy had no territory claims. Meaning potentially in the milkyway atlantians where limited to a few hundred solar systems but in pegaus they had the whole galaxy of solar system reaources.

The azgard's where elimated by the same virus that took out the atlantians, however they decided to clone their bodies, download their minds to a computer to elimate the virus. The nox, for some reason where never affected. Meaning that although they where a member of the 4 races, they communicated with the anciets before the last ship arrived from the ori galaxy, than took to isolation. Where the azgards being very curious took to their tail. Now imagine in SGU that the alien race that follows destiny everywhere looks very similar to the ancient azgard body design found in SG1 by the azgards. They have been able to evolve becasue that group of azgards have been following destiny from the begining. They where never effected by the virus as the virus had arrived from the ori galaxy thousands of years later. Now some of the last people who left the ori galaxy where also found in atlantis in its last days. How can that be? Yes atlantians lived very long lives, yes they had stasus pods, and yes stasus pods with the fontain of youth could extend further, but how could even with that they be alive 1 million years later? Because they were not alive a million years before. They where born much after destiny was ever sent out, the virus only came to atlantis and milky way shortly after being defeated by the wrath, but before all evacuation of atlantis. Aka why they still had universe class communication device. How would the ori effect the last altorins with the virus? By effecting everyone. The reason why the ori, eventually had to ascend was the same reason why the ancients did. They effected them selves. Essentially they suicide bombed the altorans.

Their is 3 groups of the azgards. The first group is those who follow the ship destiny and never where effected by the virus. The secound group is those who where effected by the virus that divides into 2 groups. The azgards eventually found one of their ancestors did some genetic modifications, but that ancestor was effected by the virus. The genetic minipulation changed the virus where they had a disease. They decided to download their consecience permeantly onto the azgard computer held by SG1. The final group stayed away from the upgrade body their for do not have the mutated virus that the thor had. They where seen in stargate atlantis. That final group has a better chance of continued living in the physical relm if they can get the dna of the azgards following destiny. Although it maybe possible to do the same with the computer based azgard consiscence it is likely more difficult to do.

The ancients traveles 10,000 years to settlement in the milkyway. Every galaxy they traveled to they found advanced life, yes not as advanced as them. Somewhere as tilk deacribed the gaulded or slightly less advanced. But still capable of galaxy class travel although perhaps taken as long as star trek, warp 3 travel.

The atlanians eventually gave up their search, settled on milkyway, and the 3 other's also less advanced who some may still be less advanced as others they found continued the journey to follow the ancients. Perhaps the azgards where amoung the first. But inorder the ancients where listed as last by the azgards, if the order of speaking is reversed, than the order would be the last the azgard said ancients following in sequencal order to the first.

Than finally after they launched destiny they found what they gave up on finding, the pegasus galaxy, a young galaxy with no intelligent life.

They eventually found a pariste that latched onto an ancient. They either put the ancient or the creature into the evolution machine. Either way they both had the dna of both. Similar to the case of the azgards the evolved form became combined and different from either. The azgard thor had a virus because the orivirus became evolved with the ancient azgard dna making a mutated combonation. Now the azgard would have likely achieved this by timperal minipulation than by genetic mutation. The original virus would not effect anyone without a consensens. Over time although speed up time of causing recombinations the virus became part of the dna, at least part of the virus became part of the dna. At least one mutation of their new body was caused by the virus.

The azgard once they had a near sutable body only had to do limited choosen upgrades. Each cell of their brain could store so much knowledge. They only increased the size of the brain to store more, perhaps even storing it throughout.

Answer 7

To Johm LA. Pegasus and milky way gates make a connection by making connections across multiple gates. An actual network as described in atlantis where they put gates inbetween the 2 galaxies. The problem is if a gate is not activated but is part of the connection of 2 other gates it cannot be used to make a vortex. The connection may shift if a gate in the path is activated.

Just as in where they where fighting the replicators gates are actually designed to be dialed in from 1 address. I mean ever gate in the universe dialed in from 1 gate at the same time. Potentially using supergates a seragut power supplies but still requiring more than significant power of around 12 zpms from the 2 halves of tera (atlantis, and fire).

If the universe class gates where to become a network than a single 2 gate connection could potentialy take the entire galaxy or at least alot out of the final connection. It is not a primative design, as they had the other design previously. It is an intentionally placed limitation for an intended purpose. Now both style gates can travel the same distance. Actually a universe gate can travel anywhere. But a universe gate can also travel anywhere that a milkyway gate can providing enough power. The increased power requirement is not needed in network class gates, unless traveling to other galaxies.

Now imagine that there is a supergate every 6-16 galaxies. If no vortex at the supergate is made than potentially each supergate can establish a subspace connection to every gate across 6-32 galaxies to say hi, similarly why the disrupter was likely actually designed although only known to be used to bring back life in the milkyway, than to destroy the replicators, than to destroy the ori.

The power used is naquadra not naquada. In the case of a f-302 they could make a small jump of 1 second before the power became unstable and the average power output could not be determind. However if you had to use 10,000 naquadra generators you could obtain a constant average. Or if the F-302 where to travel a far enough distance you could also safely travel there without the need for a capacitor as an average would also be determinable. The problem with it, is you would have to travel a significant distance with the f-302 to have a mean, or average.

Universe class gates have theroatical unlimited power absorbtion. Like the F-302 they can only do short distances or very large distances. Before the unstable nature of power absorbtion/ power output becomes an effective cancelation of a vortex. So you could use a universe class gate to travel a galaxy away or further, or a couple of solar systems but not inbetween. As far as non vortex data transfer it only requires limited power and a data transfer gate connection can be done at much further distances in the cases where destiny stops for 24 hr or variant time frames as it makes short non vortex creating connections for data gathering. Aka limiting the power absorbtion of the gate as you can only put a little power or alot of power into universe class gates, nothing inbetween.

Gate travel is like a lazer, a universe class gate makes a straight line. A milky way gate, sends it to another than another than another. When all gates are activated its like a lightbulb (actually in subspace). Although perhaps each light recieved is more dim than the laser it requires not nearly as much power as the total number of lasers that would be required.

It is likely that the rings you see when traveling from milkyway to destiny is each supergate(very very large universe gate class) you travel too, having each supergate retransmit the power. Ie, you can make a supergate conection across galaxies but unless 2 supergates are in neighboring solarsystems you cannot make a connection. That is why they had to make a connection from pegasus galaxy that destroyed both a ori and wrath ships. Their wasnot a black whole within the neighboring solarsystem. Although there is more black holes in milkyway galaxy they would fall into the class of not close enough and too far away. The goldy locks theme.

You may have to know of each supergate to travel with less power though. Enitially SG1 could only travel close. Aa a straight connection to a gate 100 solar systems away was too far. They had to know the path. A dhd alternates paths. Where sg-1 says go to p3x6a2 than p3x8a1 and so forth to make the connection with significantly less power. Meaning if they can go onto destiny transfer the locations of the supergates calculate the locatiins instead of a bulb of each the first man sized universe gate makes the first supergate has to make and so forth acrossed multiple galaxies each it than can make a straight line connection. Each supergate than would recieve instructions of where to focus their efforts. Each sigularity could provide enough power as to not require additional power from the source or recieving gatea to make the connection.

But first they need to know the original location and perhaps use mikays equation he did as an advanced human or oneals equation as a person with ancient knowledge just on a higher scale. A universe class gate does infact have a network like the milkyway gates do, however you must think of the network interms of inverse goldy locks rules. Too hot, too cold, just right, inverse being little power good, unconsitant power bad, lots of power median power obtained good.