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In the Clone Wars episode "Nightsisters" (S3E12), Asajj Ventress returns home to Dathomir after being cast off by Dooku, in which she is welcomed home by Mother Talzin and the rest of the Nightsisters.

As part of her revenge on Dooku, Asajj travels to a village of Zabraks on Dathomir and selects the strongest to be her undercover agent and help her fight Dooku. She ends up selecting Savage after he wins the competition. When Asajj returns to Mother Talzin with Savage, Mother Talzin performs some of her "Magicks" on him and turns him into the warrior that we see through the remaining appearances in the series. Prior to this event, we see no evidence that Savage has any Force-like powers, nor any strong indication of Force sensitivity.

So my question boils down to - is Savage truly Force sensitive? Or did his Force powers come solely from Mother Talzin's "Magicks"? Likewise, is there any indication that the Force powers that Maul (a.k.a Darth Maul) possesses are from Mother Talzin's Magick, or naturally occurring.

I strongly prefer answers based on sources from canon, but Legends may be acceptable if not (yet) addressed in canon.

  • 1
    My impression of Dathomir was that pretty much everyone living there was force sensitive. – Jack B Nimble Feb 2 '18 at 16:25
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    @JackBNimble except in a later episode, Mother Talkin explicitly says she is not a Force user. Although, there might be a minor distinction between "Force user" and "Force sensitive" – psubsee2003 Feb 2 '18 at 16:35
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Interesting subject.

First of all, what is the "Magick" the Nightsisters use ?

Magic was a catch-all term referring to any of a number of supernatural techniques or occult teachings outside of conventional Force powers. It was thought that magic allowed sorcerous practitioners to conjure and wield great powers or to manipulate aspects of reality in order to influence events.

What's more :

The exact nature of magic remains in dispute among philosophers, as does its relationship to the Force proper. It is possible that all "magic" traditions were simply different methods of accessing the same Force, or were emanations of different aspects of it. More so than the Force, magic potency could be trapped in artifacts or locations—but again, this may be just due to different methods of accessing and using the Force.

So we can speculate that the magic Mother Talzin use is but a different way of understanding and using the Force. Can the Force grants ability to others if carefully manipulated ?

We can think of Darth Plagueis the Wise who wanted to create a being entirely made from the Force. Could Mother Talzin achieved what he could not ? I don't think so, she didn't create a new being but it is quiet possible she merely modified him by using the Magic/Force and by manipulating midi-chlorians.

Legend

According to legend and the page of Darth Maul on Wookipedia :

Maul, the Dathomirian Zabrak male who would become the feared Darth Maul, was born on Dathomir to Kycina, a Human Nightsister of Mother Talzin's coven and a Zabrak father who, by tradition, was murdered after Maul's conception. By birth, Maul was a Nightbrother; a clan of male Zabraks from Dathomir who served as warriors and slaves of the dominant Nightsisters. Like the rest of his kin, Maul was subjected, shortly after birth, to an initiation ritual during which he was immersed in a "magic" oily bath, and covered head to toe in black and red tattoos. Later stripped of his black Nightbrother markings, Maul was left solely red-skinned. Agonizing Sith tattoos were applied personally by Darth Sidious in an attempt to cleanse Maul's mind as well as demonstrating Maul's complete dedication to the dark side.

About Savage :

Subjected to the dark magicks of the Fanged God, Opress was granted greater height and size, a full crown of vestigial horns, and fearsome power: he gained even more brutality, an unmatched ferocity, and heightened physical potential and Force abilities. In addition, the Nightsisters placed him under their control so that Ventress could dictate his actions via a spell of loyalty.

The "magic oily bath" mentionned for Maul apparently refers to the Spirit Ichor, the base of all magic employed by the Nightsisters. So we know that in Legend Maul was affected by the magic of the Nightsisters, did it grant him all of his powers ? We don't know, maybe he was already force sensitive and the magic only gave him a "boost".

The process Savage went through seems to be the hardcore version of what Maul got in his childhood and you add with that some mind controlling spell and body manipulation.

Conclusion in legend :

  1. Is Savage truly Force sensitive? Or did his Force powers come solely from Mother Talzin's "Magicks"?

With what we speculated earlier, we can conclude that Savage is indeed Force sensitive but there are strong evidences that his sensitiveness was granted with magic by giving him more midi-chlorians. So both of your questions can be answred by a "Yes".

  1. Likewise, is there any indication that the Force powers that Maul (a.k.a Darth Maul) possesses from Mother Talzin, or naturally occurring ?

Like I said earlier, we don't know. Maybe he had some before, maybe not. But seeing as he is powerful as a Sith, I think he had more midi-chlorians than the average Zebrak

Canon

About Maul :

The boy who would become known as Darth Maul was born the son of Mother Talzin on Dathomir.[...] When Maul was a child, Mother Talzin became an ally of Darth Sidious, the Dark Lord of the Sith, and the two exchanged wisdom and power. Sidious eventually abandoned Talzin, despite promising to make her his apprentice, and instead took Maul once he realized the boy's potential. Once under Sidious' tutelage, Maul began training as his Sith apprentice.

About Savage Opress :

In accordance with their plot against Dooku, Mother Talzin and her Nightsister witches employed their magicks to grant Opress fearsome abilities, placing him under their control.

In canon, the story about Savage seems the same as in Legends but there is no mention of Maul being altered by any means.

Maul seems to have been Force sensitive all along and Savage only altered as a mean of revenge, that is why Maul has a normal height.

Conclusion for Canon :

  1. Is Savage truly Force sensitive? Or did his Force powers come solely from Mother Talzin's "Magicks"?

Same as Legends, altered by magic, granting him body modification and Force sensitiveness.

  1. Likewise, is there any indication that the Force powers that Maul (a.k.a Darth Maul) possesses from Mother Talzin, or naturally occurring ?

It seems that in Canon, Maul is a natural, no alteration as far as we know.

  • Would you be able to link or at least cite the sources you used? – psubsee2003 Feb 2 '18 at 16:54
  • Done, all sources are from Wookipedia, keep in mind that my answers are only speculations – Karaelfte Feb 2 '18 at 16:58
  • Thanks. FYI - since I forgot that Talzin is mentioned as Maul's mother, I clarified the exact text of the question to make it clear I'm asking about Maul getting his powers from Mother Talzin's majicks and not via genetics. But a +1 for the research, – psubsee2003 Feb 2 '18 at 17:18
  • Would you like to go to the primary source as opposed to the secondary source? Wookiepedia should get there info from a canon novel, and sourcing it from that canon novel is actual proof, as of now your "citations" could simply be a random editors opinions. – Edlothiad Feb 4 '18 at 8:22
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  Maul - definitely Force sensitive. First of all, he outlived Nightsisters by long shot. At the time of his death by Obi-Wan on Tatooine, there was no sign of him physically changing like Opress Savage. In fact, he died pretty peacefully in Kenobi's arms. Maul used many Force techniques, was apprentice to Sidious, and even had title Darth. I doubt anyone would be able to foul Palpatine so easily and for such long time. Note that Maul used Dark side to keep him alive after his first duel against Kenobi, and so managed to survive horrific loss of legs. All this points out to conclusion that his powers were not caused by some "spell" that could be broken or expire.

  Savage Opress- more difficult to judge but first to determine what is Magick

Magick was a supernatural technique that allowed a practitioner to wield great powers connected to the dark side of the Force. The Nightsister witches of Dathomir were wielders of magick, with Mother Talzin being the most powerful of the magick-using witches.

In Canon, there doesn't seem to be any supernatural power that is not somehow connected to Force. It is true that Opress was somehow "enhanced" by Nightsisters magick when he won in the trials for undercover agent. But skills that he displays are very similar to those of other Force users (like lifting stones telekinetically) . Also, he somehow manages to overcome his mind-control programing, but Force powers remain and he even manages to push both Dooku and Asajj away using his hate and rage (typical sign of Dark side) . At the time of his death, green mist (magick) leaves his body. He also says to Maul "I'm not like you. I never was." All of this could imply that Opress's connection with force was amplified by magick, but as magick in Canon is in fact Dark side, Savage Opress was actually product of something akin to Sith alchemy . Note that Sith alchemy usually lasts long, but some powerfull shock could nulify its effects (example face of Sidious during and after duel vs Windu) .

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