Micah's recent answer contained the following quote from a conversation in ROTK between Treebeard and the Elves:

... But Galadriel said: "Not in Middle-earth, nor until the lands that lie under the wave are lifted up again. Then in the willow-meads of Tasarinan we may meet in the Spring. Farewell!"

Is there any detail from the rest of Tolkien's work on what "nor until the lands that lie under the wave are lifted up again" means? I thought that the Third Age's end was supposed to essentially be the end of magical things in Middle Earth.

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    It refers to the Second Prophecy of Mandos - see more [here][1] [1]: scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/32734/… – MadTux Mar 12 '13 at 11:23
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    Note that the phrase "nor until the lands that lie under the wave are lifted up again" doesn't necessarily mean that such a thing will happen. It could have been a way to refer to something that would never happen (as in "when Hell freezes over"). – Blackwood Aug 23 '16 at 20:12

In one version of the Silmarillion (found in HoME V: The Lost Road), Mandos delivers an apocalyptic prophecy which includes this line:

Thereafter shall Earth be broken and re-made, and the Silmarils shall be recovered out of Air and Earth and Sea; for Earendel shall descend and surrender that flame which he hath had in keeping.

It seems reasonable to suppose that, since the original loss of the Silmarils came at the same time as the sinking of Beleriand, the remaking of the Earth to recover them might also mean its recovery.

(Note however that this prophecy doesn't appear in the published Silmarillion, because it contradicts certain other things Tolkien wrote about the eventual fate of the world.)


Tasarinan and the lands that lie under the wave are both references to Beleriand that sunk as part of the war of the Valar on Morgoth.

I took this to be a reference to an afterlife where the world is whole once more, in a pristine state prior to Morgoth's fall. With Tolkien's Christianity informing the underlying myths of Middle Earth, this would be where Eru had retreated to. I do not believe the intent was to indicate this meeting wuld be in Middle Earth itself.

There are plenty of references in the letters of Eru and God, etc, but nothing that related specifically to this quote.


In the council of Elrond, Glorfindel suggests they cast the ring into the sea, to which Gandalf replies "There are many things in the deep waters, and seas and lands may change." I interpret "sea and land may change" as acknoledgement of the existence of Geological activity and changing coastlines. I haven't read the Silmarillion and so my interpretation probably isn't very valid but there have been several attempts at lining up a map of middle Earth with one of Europe and even a quote in the beginning of The Hobbit saying something about how hobbits inhabited "what is now the northwest corner of the old world." So natural processes changing the patterns of land is not out of the question.

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