Lorgar's plans to overthrow his father had already begun before the Emperor's announcement that he was making Horus Warmaster and leaving the Great Crusade to return to Earth.

When the Emperor made this announcement, did Lorgar know it was coming, either from his own prescience, being told it by the Chaos Gods or had he manipulated events?

I know Horus was chosen by the forces of Chaos to lead their army, but was this because they knew he would be Warmaster already?

  • I'd say it's rather impossible to know really, but it would've probably been a simple guess, it couldn't have really been anyone other than Horus really.
    – NinoM
    Commented Feb 1, 2019 at 23:11
  • I suppose if Horus hadn’t been chosen Lorgar could have fed the resulting feelings of anger and jealousy to turn Horus.
    – Richard C
    Commented Feb 2, 2019 at 10:15

1 Answer 1


Yes. From the Book The First Heretic by Aaron Dembski-Bowden, Chapter 18:

Argel Tal had never heard his sire speak so softly. ‘No. The Warmaster.’

The golden-skinned giant brushed his hands over his face, seemingly afflicted by a sudden weariness. ‘I do not know that title,’ he said. ‘Warmaster. An ugly word.’

Argel Tal chuckled in two voices. ‘Of course, forgive us, Lorgar. He will not be named that for some time. He is still merely Horus. When the vision ended in golden light, we could see nothing beyond the flare. But we heard your brother Horus. The machinery was breaking down, rattling and crashing. There was gunfire. The rush of the most powerful wind we’ve ever felt. And we heard Horus’s voice – shouting, defiant, enraged. It was as if he were there with us, seeing what we saw.’

‘Stop saying “we”. You are Argel Tal.’ ‘We are Argel Tal, yes. In forty-three years, Horus will speak four words that will save humanity or lead to its extinction. We know what those words are, Lorgar. Do you?’

  • The famous "scattering of the primarchs" scene - it has been described from the Horus point of view in "False Gods" novel (where Horus as a Warmaster, has been mortally wounded and eventually falls to Chaos).
    – Yasskier
    Commented Mar 11, 2020 at 20:44

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