Just saw another question regarding Doombreed, and it made me wonder.

Evidence from the text:

His True Name was long forgotten, remembered only on a scroll of dried skin, but he was once human, a mighty warlord who led armies which ravaged entire nations on Terra long ago in the Age of Terra around M1/M2. He was responsible for genocide and murder on a grand scale, such wanton carnage drawing the eye of the god Khorne, still relatively young, who granted the warlord the ultimate reward of Daemonhood.

So, once human (check). Led an army that ravaged entire nations on Terra somewhere in the first two millennia (WW2 definitely happened in M2). Responsible for murder and genocide on a grand scale (check and check).

Anything else in or out of universe that confirms or refutes this?

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    You could make the same arguments for Genghis Khan or, stretching the timeline a bit, Julius Caesar. I don't think there's any way to know for sure. – user22478 Apr 23 '19 at 22:54
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    @NathanGriffiths sure, that’s why I asked if there’s any other evidence. I also don’t know that your other examples are quite so famous on the genocide part, though Stalin would be a good additional option. – Paul Apr 23 '19 at 22:56
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    Genghis Khan is at least as famous as Hitler on the "genocide and murder on a grand scale" front and probably fits the "warlord" description better than Hitler. Stalin is also up there on the genocide front but probably doesn't fit the "warlord who led armies ravaged which ravaged entire nations" part, as his genocide was mostly against the population of his own state. – user22478 Apr 23 '19 at 23:22

Maybe, but probably not

I can't find any proof of it, whether or for or against. That said, I think the evidence leans against it.

Points in favor: Hitler killed a lot of people and started a highly deadly war, which Khorne would appreciate. His armies did ravage entire nations. He was responsible for genocide during the second millenium. "Breed" sounds a bit like Nazi racial ideology. Warhammer doesn't have an aversion to Nazi references: the Empire of Mankind is full of them.

Points against: To begin with, it's hard to describe Hitler as a "mighty warlord." He wasn't known for his skill on the battlefield or wading into the fight. He was an administrator. Nor could he realistically be described as leading armies: he was only ever a Gefreiter, the second rank to which a soldier could be promoted, or a commander-in-chief far away from enemy lines. Although he arguably was not a strategic genius either, focusing more on his ideological goals, it's hard to imagine him wielding an axe and sword, tearing apart tanks.

Further, there are tons of other people who match the description better. Genghis Khan, for instance, was personally a great general, and also sacked nations and committed genocide. If we accept "around" M1/M2 as being rather loose, it could even be a warlord in the future from the perspective of the published content.

There's also no Nazi iconography with Doombreed's description. Further, his weapons don't exactly scream "Hitler": an axe, a staff, and a necklace? I'd expect him to use similar sorts of weapons to those he used in life, not switch from machine guns to axes.

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    Fair points; I'll see if anyone else has other answers and otherwise accept tomorrow or the next day. Though, the jury seems out on whether Genghis Khan qualified for genocidal. Mass murderer, sure, but to qualify for genocide you have to move from merely killing a lot of people to systematically trying to destroy an entire people. I know some sources say he was genocidal, just it's not as universal a label for him, from my reading. – Paul Apr 24 '19 at 0:01
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    Plus Doombreed doesn't have Hitler's funny little moustache. I'd think that would most definitely be part of the deal. – Daft Apr 24 '19 at 12:48

Okay so it's a bit complex but the bare bones goes like this, Khorne was born first and his birth caused the Crusades, then Nurgle's birth caused the Black Death, and Slaanish the madness of the Eldar. Since Doombreed was the first Daemon of Khorne, chosen while the god was still quite young, he was probably chosen between the First Crusade 1095, and the birth of Nurgle/outbreak of the Black Death in the 1340s and 1350s.

This timeline rules out a lot of otherwise good candidates, including Vlad Țepeș, Tamerlane, Attila the Hun and a good number of later leaders (including Hitler) as well because they were active too late in the piece. It puts Genghis Khan squarely in the frame along with several notable descendants, Kublai Khan was no slouch when it came to cutting a swath either.

As a note the imagery and weaponry associated with Doombreed actually puts me in mind of a Norse leader, particularly Eric Bloodaxe, but while the timing and widespread ravaging of the landscape fits the Vikings were pretty light on the Genocide bit.

  • This answer may be slightly better than @Adamants only b/c it pulls in the timeline element that I hadn't considered, if true. Can you cite a source that indicates Khorne's birth caused the Crusades? It seems like the Aeldari lore used to be that the Fall happened way before humans were on the scene, and that was the birth of Slaanesh. Also, minor point but the Lexicanium says that Doombreed is "one of" Khorne's first servants, but not "the first" which is a bit different. For all we know Young Khorne went a millenia between picking each of his Chosen. – Paul Apr 24 '19 at 12:53
  • @Paul Where as I've always seen the Fall placed at the end of and/or causing the end of the Golden Age of Humanity post our first interstellar expansion, i.e. in the 30th millennium. I'm drawing largely on 40k Theories' video Who became Doombreed because he's compiled more information than I feel like going through myself. – Ash Apr 24 '19 at 13:00
  • The timeline of the Warhammer has been changed in the recent edition - it is no longer true that Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeentch were born during M1/M2 but much earlier - during (or shortly after) the War in Heavens – Yasskier Apr 25 '19 at 0:37
  • @Yasskier Of course they did, why am I not surprised. – Ash Apr 28 '19 at 17:31

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