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I've been binge watching the whole Alien franchise (following the right time line) and now I'm stuck right after Alien: Covenant because I didn't get one thing. At first I thought that the engineers created the Alien, but later I found out that they just "found" the black goo, which is a pathogen that alters the DNA of many species (in fact they created humankind from their DNA by making one engineer drink the black liquid many years ago). So later in Alien: Covenant we see that David (around 2100) is the true creator of the Alien thanks to his numerous experiment on both engineers and Shaw.

But the question that is bugging me is: Where did the queen from Alien vs Predator come from if the first Alien was created by David? Searching up online I found that it was captured by the Predators (years before modern civilisation) and was encaged on Earth in Antarctica because by breading with humans it would make a worthy pray to be hunted by the young Predators. But where does the queen originate from? Who made the first alien?

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  • later I found out that they just "found" the black goo Where did you hear that? Was it something written or said by Ridley Scott?
    – Hypnosifl
    Sep 14 '20 at 17:50
  • As for the question about Alien vs. Predator, Scott has indicated he didn't like those movies (see here and here) and Lindelof claimed Scott gave him a "dirty look" when he asked about them while writing the script for Prometheus, so Scott probably didn't take them as "canon" when writing Prometheus and Covenant.
    – Hypnosifl
    Sep 14 '20 at 17:51
  • Also see Lindelof's comment here about how for him the issue of "what's canon and what's not canon" is "transcended by Ridley as a director", and when he asked Ridley Scott a question about Alien Vs. Predator, "he just sort of looked at me like I had just slapped him in the face. That was the beginning, middle and end of all Alien Vs. Predator references in our story process."
    – Hypnosifl
    Sep 14 '20 at 18:45
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    Can open, worms everywhere.
    – Moo
    Sep 15 '20 at 0:22
  • As one additional FYI, Covenant was actually in some kind of limbo as to whether it was actually directly related to the Alien franchise, rather than just being a similar story told by the same director. I'm not sure it was actually considered any kind of canon until the next movie was being developed. Sep 16 '20 at 18:46
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It sounds like you're assuming that Alien vs. Predator is supposed to be canon as far as Alien: Covenant is concerned, which doesn't appear to be the case.

In the last 20 seconds of this 2012 interview with Empire Magazine, the director of Prometheus and Alien: Covenant, Ridley Scott, states that he hadn't seen either of the Alien vs. Predator films at the time that interview was conducted (the same year Prometheus was released in theatres):

Empire Magazine: Just the very final question, because I've always wondered: Have you seen either of the Alien vs. Predator movies?

Ridley Scott: No.

Empire Magazine: They don't exist?

Ridley Scott: I couldn't do that. I couldn't quite take that step.

Judging by remarks he made during this 2019 interview with The Hollywood Reporter, it sounds like Scott was of the view that Alien vs. Predator had left the Alien franchise on life support, and that he needed to go back to the drawing board in order to revive it:

Ridley Scott: I think Alien vs. Predator was a daft idea. And I'm not sure it did very well or not, I don't know. But it somehow brought down the beast. And I said to them, 'Listen, you can resurrect this, but we have to go back to scratch and go to a prequel, if you like.'

And in this interview with CraveOnline, one of the screenwriters on Prometheus, Damon Lindelof, indicates that Scott wasn't interested in factoring the Charles Bishop Weyland character shown in the first Alien vs. Predator film into the Peter Weyland backstory they were creating for Prometheus:

CraveOnline: You said nothing is an accidental reference, so is there a possible intentional Alien Vs. Predator reference in that the Weylands are always seeking eternal life?

Damon Lindelof: You mean in terms of Charles Bishop Weyland? Look, as to what’s canon and what’s not canon, for me as a screenwriter it’s transcended by Ridley as a director. Here’s the thing. Ridley invented this. He created this Alien universe. He birthed it out of his own heart and soul. So he gets to do whatever it is he wants to do and he wanted to use Weyland as a conduit in the story, and was not interested at all when I said to him, “You know, Weyland was a character in one of the Alien Vs. Predator movies,” he just sort of looked at me like I had just slapped him in the face. That was the beginning, middle and end of all Alien Vs. Predator references in our story process.

In light of the above comments, it seems pretty clear that the events of Alien vs. Predator did not occur in the timeline Alien: Covenant exists in, which means that the Xenomorphs in those films could have very different backstories. The origins of the Xenomorphs and Alien Queen shown in Alien vs. Predator remain unknown, whereas in Prometheus and Alien: Covenant, it would appear that David is the creator of Xenomorphs, while Queens don't actually exist yet.

It also shouldn't be taken for granted that Queens will ever exist in the universe Scott has been building with his prequel series, since the Queen was something James Cameron came up with when he wrote Aliens. The writers of the first film intended for Xenomorph Eggs to be produced through the process of Eggmorphing (although this was only alluded to on-screen in the director's cut of Alien). Note that we saw a number of Eggs in Alien: Covenant, apparently produced without the need for a Queen.

Scott does seem to like Aliens though, judging by various remarks he's made about the film. So he might wish to incorporate the Queen into his prequel series, assuming any further installments are actually made. We'll have to wait and see on that front.

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Firstly, "Alien" and "Alien Vs. Predator" (or "AvP") are two separate franchises, with storylines and plots that diverge and contradict. AvP came later and changed things to fit the needs of its directors. That explains why the alien queen plotline does not make sense when you compare the two franchises. AvP had no need to explain the queen's origins.

Many fans of the Alien franchise do not like how Ridley Scott revealed that David created the Alien creature.

To make matters more complex, it was James Cameron's "Aliens" that brought in the alien queen, which explains why there is no provision of one in Ridley Scott's take on his original plot line established in Alien. (See the infamous "Cocoon Scene" in Alien: The Director's Cut, for Ridley's vision of alien reproduction.

Hope this helps. Don't let the disparate story lines ruin your enjoyment of these films. :)

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    "Don't let the disparate story lines ruin your enjoyment of these films" - good advice, largely because the story, and in many cases the cinematography, of AvP, Covenant and Prometheus will - almost certainly - do that for you without you having to introduce any effort. Sep 15 '20 at 0:03
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    I would suggest that even if David created the xenomorph or whatever you wish to the sort of creature we saw in 1979 Alien for the first time, what has been hammered home through multiple films is the incredible flexibility of the "species" -- the assume different shapes, they acquire characteristics of their hosts. I suggest that even if David had not come along, such creatures would have arisen via contact with the black goo and indeed may have existed thousands of years before -- David maybe shaped a creature but before David, the deacon existed, for example.
    – releseabe
    Sep 15 '20 at 1:35
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The series are not necessarily meant to be in the same canon, but the issue actually comes up looking only at both Engineer movies. Thankfully, they also resolve it and numerous other inconsistencies in the series.

So the simple answer, David did not create the first Alien. He might be the creator of the line that will be found on LV-426 but so far this isn't even very clear. The creatures are ancient. We see one depicted in a relief in Prometheus, they already existed.

The black goo has patterns in what it makes but things do not always come out quite the same. Look carefully at the Aliens in AvP, they are not a perfect match for those on LV-426. The Aliens vs Predator hive is explained by some Predators finding black goo or already developed xenomorphs and doing what Predators do, as simple as that. These are not David's Aliens, just another product of the goo like the Deacon or Trilobite.

Some lines developed Queens, others didn't. The Eggmorphing some Aliens use makes more sense given the nature of the black goo. Every variation in the different iterations of the creatures makes more sense given their origins. Even the genetic memory thing becomes vaguely plausible.

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I actually like the fact that there are multiple Alien species out there. As a fan, I don't see why it cant all be canon. They have comics that back it up including Predators fighting Engineers. I mean that is like Disney taking Star Wars, and saying all these books and comics the fans have read for many years and throwing it out the window. Of course Disney released the crappy sequel trilogy that went against a lot of the lore and should be erased. That is a another issue though.

As far as the Xenomorph in Alien Covenant, I would say that is the nature of the black goo. Maybe the Xenomorph is a by-product of mixing with human DNA and/or Engineer DNA. Could be numerous factors. Maybe David only thought he was creating, when in fact he was just making the process of the black goo go faster than it normally would have.

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  • It's the makers of any given film that get to decide what is canon to their film or not. In the case of Prometheus and Covenant, those are very much Ridley Scott's films, and it's pretty clear that AvP doesn't exist as far as he's concerned. There's no reason why all those films can't coexist within your own headcanon, of course, but don't make the mistake of conflating headcanon with official canon. Feb 28 at 7:58

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