12

spoilers for TCW, Rebels, and Mandalorian season 2

In Mandalorian season 2, Ahsoka neglects to train Grogu because of his attachment to Din, saying this line:

Ahsoka: I've seen what such feelings can do to a fully trained Jedi Knight. To the best of us.

That's a good line. But when I heard it, my first thought was: how did Ahsoka know this?

Here's a quick timeline of Ahsoka's knowledge of Anakin's fall:

  • She interacts with him before leaving to Mandalore in TCW season 7, where Anakin seems happy.
  • In Order 66, she survives but believes that Anakin has died with the Order
  • Fifteen years later, Ahsoka learns that Vader was once Anakin
  • Ahsoka fights Vader and is saved by Ezra
  • Ahsoka leaves with Sabine to find Ezra
  • At the point we see her in Mandalorian season 2, she is looking for Thrawn and, presumably Ezra.

By season 2, we know that Ahsoka knows the truth about Vader and Anakin. However, in this line to Din, Ahsoka isn't just saying that Anakin fell. She's saying why he fell. Specifically, that his feelings caused him to turn to the Dark Side. How does she know this?

At first I assumed that Ahsoka did some guess work in between Rebels and Mandalorian, but she would have needed to realize several different things to come to the conclusion that it was Anakin's feelings that undid him. These things would be:

  1. That Anakin and Padme were married/in love
  2. That Padme was pregnant
  3. That Palpatine was the Sith lord
  4. That Palpatine promised a way to save Padme if Anakin joined the Dark Side

Let's look over all of those:

  1. Ahsoka didn't seem to know about Anakin and Padme

Ahsoka has very minimal interactions with Padme in TCW, and none in season 7. But while Obi-Wan hints at knowing about the two of them, nothing in Anakin's interactions with Ahsoka, especially in season 7, seem to hint at her knowing about them.

  1. Ahsoka didn't know that Padme was pregnant

At the point of season 7, Padme is pregnant. If Ahsoka knew this, she would probably bring it up to Anakin, but it doesn't get acknowledged. It's also a fairly safe bet that Ahsoka never knew about Luke or Leia - she likely would've searched for them if she did, or done what Obi-Wan did and watch them from a distance, but from the Ahsoka novel we know she didn't do that.

  1. Ahsoka didn't know that Palpatine was the Sith lord

In season 7, the Jedi council was still searching for their Sith lord - and it doesn't even seem as if she knew they were looking for him, or that a Sith lord even existed, as she wasn't in the Order at this time. Ahsoka's interactions with Palpatine are also minimal and never hint at her knowing about his being Sidious. Her lack of knowledge of the events of Order 66 add to this.

  1. Ahsoka didn't know that Palpatine promised a way to save Padme if Anakin joined the Dark Side

Honestly, this is a point it seems like even Obi-Wan didn't exactly know. But it is important, and the crux of Ahsoka's line in the Mandalorian - that it was Anakin's feelings that ultimately caused his fall. (Let's not even get into the details of either of them somehow knowing that Anakin had a dream that Padme would die in childbirth, which was his reasoning for joining the Dark Side in the first place.)

  1. Ahsoka, presumably, never interacted with Obi-Wan in this interim

There is a chance that Ahsoka communicated with Obi-Wan as a Force Ghost in the in-between of Rebels and Mandalorian, but this is a bit of a stretch, and even then, if it was Obi-Wan who told Ahsoka all of this, it doesn't add up with her line "I've seen what such feelings can do." Seen, not heard, but when Ahsoka last saw Anakin he didn't seem like he was on the verge of falling to the Dark Side - she didn't see his fall, but she fought Vader years later.

So - how did Ahsoka know this very specific detail about Anakin's fall in Mandalorian? Given what little she knew about the details surrounding his fall, it doesn't seem likely that she could've pieced that all together entirely on her own. And if the answer is as simple as "she heard it from Obi-Wan," that seems to go against her having "seen" what Anakin's feelings led to.

4
  • 4
    I know that it is easy to think that she is talking about Anakin, but it would make much more sense to believe that she was talking about Quinlan Vos. He was a Jedi Knight, fell in love with Asajj Ventress, and as a result of that temporarily fell to the Dark Side and wreaked havoc with Dooku. While she may not have been physically present, she was probably close enough to the situation that it would not be inaccurate to say that she saw what could happen. – Adamant Feb 21 at 5:21
  • 2
    Magic? I mean, I The Force? Maybe she was given the low down by force ghosts. – Wiggo the Wookie Feb 21 at 11:46
  • 1
    @Adamant The Quinlan Vos theory is plausible, but I feel like the line "the best of us" makes it implied that she's talking about Anakin, who was more powerful than any of them. If she'd just made an offhand comment about how feelings do negative things to the Jedi, then she could be talking about Quinlan or even Obi-Wan, if she knew about Satine, but going so far as to deny training Grogu because of his feelings makes it seem that she isn't talking about Quinlan's slip, but Anakin's fall. – Sophie the Jedi Knight Feb 25 at 3:56
  • 1
    @WiggotheWookie That was a theory I was considering - it is fully possible that Obi-Wan just told Ahsoka this as a Force ghost at some point. However, Ahsoka explicitly said "I've SEEN what such feelings can do," making it sound as if she witnessed it - not just heard fifteen years later that it was Anakin's feelings that were his downfall. Honestly, though, at this point, "Obi-Wan told her as a Force ghost" seems like the likeliest answer. – Sophie the Jedi Knight Feb 25 at 3:56
5

Well, it's complicated.

We see in TCW 7x10 "The Phantom Apprentice" that Maul tells Ahsoka that Sidious is the Sith Lord. And it's very possible that she was told by Rex, who knew about Padme and Anakin being married (as shown in Season 7 of TCW in a scene where Anakin goes to talk to Padme and Rex keeps watch, seeming to know exactly what is going on).

Also, seeing as Ahsoka spends a lot of time with Rex throughout not just TCW but also in Rebels and in the EU, that means that she's probably aware of it. And Maul, in The Phantom Apprentice, tells Ahsoka that Sidious has seduced a powerful Jedi to his side (and I haven't seen that one in a while, so I'm not sure he tells Ahsoka explicitly that it's Anakin, but I think he does). This all adds up to having the potential for Ahsoka knowing what happened.

She also interacts with Bail Organa in not only Rebels but the EU, and seeing as Bail is Leia's adopted father and knows exactly what happened to Anakin/Padme, there was probably a (very uncomfortable) conversation if Ahsoka ever brought up Anakin and Padme. Does that make sense? Everything is there, but there's no confirmation that it actually happened.

She may have even visited the Jedi Temple ruins and felt what had gone on - in the sequel trilogy, Rey can sense that the Sith Dagger had done terrible things, and something similar could have applied.

I think that this makes sense and that Ahsoka realizes the same thing. Obi-Wan could have also told her as a Force ghost, but that just seems like a cop-out to me. And even with that, Obi-Wan still may not have known the specifics of Anakin's fall either, unless the theory of Force ghosts being able to time-travel is true.

I hope that answered your question!

1

I think it's pretty safe to assume that this is a figure of speech, more than anything else. She's not saying she witnessed every event personally. Nor is she saying she has the specifics of what led to his downfall. She's saying she knows what such feelings do to a Jedi of even the highest caliber.

Yoda: "Fear is the path to the Dark Side."

Star Wars: Episode I: The Phantom Menace

Yoda: "The Fear of loss is a path to the Dark Side."

Star Wars: Episode III: Revenge of the Sith

Obi-Wan Kenobi: "Luke, don’t give in to hate. That leads to the Dark Side."

Star Wars: Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back

Every lesson a Jedi Master ever espouses about the Dark Side is that it's negative emotions that lead to it. Fear, anger, hate, lust for power. Sith Masters constantly tell you to give into your hate. Master your fear. For this gives you power.

So there's only one way Anakin could have become a Sith Lord. He gave into all those feelings that she was sensing in Grogu. She's seen the before and after, whether she was aware Anakin harbored those feelings before everything happened or not.

In any case, whether she heard the specifics from a close associate (Bail Organa being a very likely candidate), pieced it together from clues or just went by her knowledge of Anakin being Vader, she really didn't need to know any specifics to claim: "I've seen what such feeling can do to a fully trained Jedi Knight. To the best of us." And why she'd be reluctant to train Grogu. Those feelings are the only way you get there.

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.