When you look at this image from the end of Return of the King it seems the Gulf of Lune isn't as large as the Encyclopedia of Arda claims, namely that it would span more than two hundred miles.

Mithlond and beyond

It's not even twenty miles, and it seems as if Forlond (which should be to the right in the image) and Harlond (to the left) are connected to Mithlond, like an agglomeration. Perhaps this isn't the entire gulf. However, maps like the one in the link don't show any such landscape on them, except for the last two peninsulae of Lindon, which I identify in the image as those with the exceptional hills that look similar to each other. The entire Gondorean navy could easily fill the gulf and perhaps more ships anchored outside it during the battle against Angmar.

So the question is, how big is the Gulf of Lune actually; are there any numbers? If it really spans more than two hundred miles far (i.e. the above image isn't the entire gulf), where in the maps do we find the landscape portrayed above? Or if the above landscape isn't featured on the maps, then why not? Does the image above include Har- and Forlond?

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    Where is that image from? What makes you think it's the Gulf of Lune? How do you know it's not just the Grey Havens which (presumably) are a small inlet/harbour on the edge of the gulf? Commented Apr 17, 2022 at 13:38
  • @DanielRoseman What makes me think it's the entire gulf is that it looks like on the maps, albeit much scaled, and that there aren't any similar peninsulae shown on maps in the very vicinity of Mithlond. Where it is from: youtube.com/…
    – Wingfoot
    Commented Apr 17, 2022 at 13:41
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    Well, again, looking at that clip (I've never seen the film) it is apparently, like I say, a tiny inlet; I don't know where you got 20 miles from but to me that only looks like a few hundred yards (see especially 00:34). Again, that's what I'd expect from a small harbour. Also note that the map doesn't show Mithlond as being at the far point of the gulf, but here they are clearly standing at the far point of the harbour. Commented Apr 17, 2022 at 13:45
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    Plus, since this is from the film, there's no reason to assume that Peter Jackson's interpretation of the geography is any more accurate than his interpretation of anything else (that is to say, not very). Commented Apr 17, 2022 at 13:46
  • @DanielRoseman The presentation of your questions doesn't make it clear that Wingfoot needs to edit details in to the question.
    – Spencer
    Commented Apr 17, 2022 at 13:52

1 Answer 1


As you can see from this rather snazzy map of Middle-earth (complete with annotations by Tolkien himself), the Gulf of Lune is approximately 200 miles in length, from the point at which it joins the Great Sea along to the Grey Havens, situated at the mouth of the River Lune.

enter image description here.

What you're looking at in the film is presumably the very end of the gulf, looking out toward the horizon, with some licence taken by Peter Jackson to make the city encroach onto the gulf in order to show more of its features.

enter image description here

The script describes what we're looking at as an 'inlet'

ANGLE ON: ELROND, CELEBORN and GALADRIEL are waiting for them. The SETTING SUN slowly dropping behind the SEA ... visible between the HEADLANDS of a beautiful INLET.

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    The key word here being "inlet", so possibly just an inlet of the Gulf Of Lune, not the Gulf itself. Some visiting friends of mine once experienced an analogous misapprehension. The problem is that Tolkien didn't go into geographic detail at that level unless the story demanded it. There was never a detailed map of the Havens himself.
    – Spencer
    Commented Apr 17, 2022 at 15:17

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