24

Harry takes Draco Malfoy's hawthorn wand, not the Elder Wand. How, then, does he become the master of the Elder Wand, which he never took from its true owner (Draco), or touched? Does a wizard lose the allegiance of all his wands if even one of them is taken from him? Pretty risky innit?

19

Since Draco took the Elder Wand from Dumbledore's hand (and thus, 'defeated' him, via disarming), the allegiance of the Elder Wand passed to him (even though Draco didn't use it).

Later when Harry took the hawthorn wand from Draco, the Elder Wand knew that Draco had been "beaten" and it changed its allegiance to Harry Potter. It was simply waiting for him to gain possession of it.

  • 4
    But that doesn't make any sense. According to Ollivander, the WAND has to be won from its owner, in order for it to change allegiance. Harry didn't win the Elder Wand; he won the hawthorn wand. If this wasn't the rule, no one would want to win another's wand. If he lost it or gave it back, he'd lose his own too (lose one of your wands means losing all of them to the winner). Capturing another's wand increases your vulnerability to your wand switching allegiance. If you ask me it makes more sense that the Elder Wand refused to attack Harry because it thought Draco was holding the hawthorn wand. – Jay Nov 26 '11 at 3:28
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    Look at it this way; it was taken from the hand of it's owner by the holder of the hawthorn wand (Draco). That wand was taken from it's owner by Harry. Even though it was not taken directly by Harry, the chain of dominance remains unbroken -- Harry defeated Malfoy who defeated Dumbledore. The wand simply recognizes when it's owner is defeated and gives it's allegiance to the victor; the fact that it was never in his hand is irrelevant -- the wand 'knows'.... It seeks the 'best' to be held by, and it determines this by who wins. Lose while you have it's allegiance, and it serves the winner. – K-H-W Nov 26 '11 at 6:27
  • 4
    @Jay (Moving out of Universe) There are many many inconsistencies in HP if you start looking too hard, a degree of suspension of disbelief is necessary. – Richard Nov 26 '11 at 8:13
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    It's magic -- what sense is it supposed to make? – Tango Nov 26 '11 at 18:35
  • 3
    I would take it that the Elder Wand is an exception. It specifically allies with whoever has defeated the last master, under any circumstances. Even in the story, one wizard beat the other by stabbing him with a knife. That means the Elder Wand changed allegiances through a totally non-magic method, which is way stranger than it changing allegiances because someone was beaten magically using a different wand. – Sydenam Dec 29 '11 at 22:06
45

This is a complicated topic.

What is not made clear in canon, but is explained later by J.K. Rowling, is the fact that

if a wizard or witch defeats another and earns the allegiance of their opponent's wand, all wands under the control of the opponent switch allegiance to the victor and it is possible for a witch or wizard to be the master of more than one wand at a time, and to lose the allegiance of more than one wand at a time. [Emphasis mine]

Draco Malfoy was master of both his hawthorn wand (the wand that chose him at Ollivanders when he was eleven) and the Elder Wand, following his disarming of Dumbledore on the Astronomy Tower the night Dumbledore was killed.

When Harry Potter defeated Draco Malfoy by taking Draco's wand at Malfoy Manor, not only did Draco's hawthorn wand switch allegiance to Harry, but the Elder Wand did as well. As noted, Draco never knew he was master of the Elder Wand at any point. Furthermore, the Elder Wand chose Harry as its master.

In Deathly Hallows, Voldemort says,

"But then, Potter, Dumbledore as good as gave me the wand!" Voldemort's voice shook with malicious pleasure. "I stole the wand from its last master's tomb! I removed it against its last master's wishes! Its power is mine!

To which Harry replies:

"You still don't get it, Riddle, do you? Possessing the wand isn't enough! Holding it, using it, doesn't make it really yours. Didn't you listen to Ollivander? The wand chooses the wizard . . ."
(Deathly Hallows -- Chapter 36)

J.K. Rowling has shared that the core of the Elder Wand is the tail hair of a Thestral, "a powerful and tricky substance that can be mastered only by a witch or wizard capable of facing death. J.K. Rowling Therefore, Voldemort would never have been able to truly master the Elder Wand, no matter how he came to possess it. Voldemort was incapable of facing death. As we know, Harry faced death twice, once unknowingly as an infant, once deliberately as a teen. Accordingly, Harry was able to both master and win the allegiance of the Elder Wand.

  • So Dumbledore and Malfoy must have faced death to become masters of the Elder wand and to pass the mastery to Harry? – Zikato Apr 15 '15 at 13:24
  • @Zikato Not necessarily. But unlike Voldemort who feared death above all else and was incapable of facing it, there's nothing to suggest that Malfoy or especially Dumbledore (who we know did face death quite calmly) was particularly incapable of facing death, should the need arise. That's not to say he necessarily had done so; but he could, unlike Voldemort who, up until the very last second of his life, refused to consider his own mortality and regard death as a possible event to occur to him. – Janus Bahs Jacquet Apr 15 '15 at 15:40
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    @Slytherincess Regarding »if a wizard or witch defeats another and earns the allegiance of their opponent's wand« — Do you know if JKR has ever said anything about what exactly causes a defeat to result in a change of wand allegiance? It's obviously not every defeat that does so, or wands would be changing allegiances left, right, and centre every time someone successfully expelliarmus’ed someone else in one of the many fight scenes in the series… so why does Harry ‘win’ the hawthorn wand when disarming Draco at Malfoy Manor, but not when sectumsempra’ing him in Myrtle’s lavatory? – Janus Bahs Jacquet Apr 15 '15 at 15:44
  • Where is the first quote from? Is it possible to add a link to it? – sumelic Oct 24 '16 at 18:16
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    @user21820 You're right, of course; that was in Half-Blood Prince. – Janus Bahs Jacquet Jan 24 '17 at 10:25
3

The wand's allegiance changes when its master is "defeated." Evidently, being disarmed counts, which I think makes sense. If you've disarmed a wizard, they're at your mercy, you've essentially defeated them. It doesn't matter whether the wand is present; since it is magical, it will know its master has been defeated, and by whom.

Yes, that is dangerous, but it's a dangerous wand.

0

In the book and the film "Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince" it appears that Snape disarmed Dumbledore, from the way Harry was looking at it. In actual fact, Malfoy did disarm Dumbledore, but had no clue that he now possessed the wand. Lord Voldemort, in thinking Severus Snape had disarmed Dumbledore, destroys him with the Avada Kedarva curse. However since Snape did not actually disarm Dumbledore, the wand wouldn't cooperate with Lord Voldemort.

After looking at the Pensieve, Harry realizes that Snape was not to blame for Dumbledore's death and figures out that Draco Malfoy did disarm Dumbledore. After Harry Potter defeats Lord Voldemort, he actually explains to Hermione and Ron how he had just recently disarmed Malfoy, making Harry owner of the wand. However, seeing as the Elder Wand with its powers has caused so much trouble, wars and deaths alike, he places it back into Dumbledore's grave (in the book; in the film he snaps it in two), thinking the wizarding world would be much better without it.

-1

Harry did not snap the wand maybe in the movie but not the book. In the book he puts it back in dumbledores grave. He is still the master of the wand so when he dies the wand will not accept another master because they will not be able to defaet Harry Potter also known as the "Chosen One" or "The Boy Who Lived".

-2

By disarming Dumbledore using Expelliarmus, Draco became the true owner of the Elder Wand. At Malfoy Manor Harry disarms Draco, meaning, unbeknownst to him, that the Elder Wand is his. However, Voldemort believes that you have to kill a person to get it, making it so the wand goes from Dumbledore to Snape to Voldemort. Ollivander senses Draco’s original wand’s allegiance has changed because he temporarily had possession of the Elder Wand. I assume that his first wand may have felt betrayed and from there I’m not positive about Draco’s first wand.............????

-3

Here is an attempt at a reply to the initial question. I think, and I am not well acquainted with the books, that it is a special feature of the elder wand, a special feature of "power", if you will, that its allegiance is of such a transient nature. However, in my point of view that is not necessarily intrinsic to ordinary wands just as much.

-4

I think this makes more sense though: Draco disarmed Dumbledore therefore NOT defeating him. Snape killed Dumbeldore so the wand was then his. Voldemort killed Snape so the wand was then Voldemort's and Voldemort was killy by Harry but then Harry snapped the wand in two and threw it away:/does this make sense to anyone else but me?!

  • 6
    The only problem with your chain of logic is that your first step is directly contradicted by the books. It is explicitly stated that Draco's disarming of Dumbledore made Draco the master of the Elder Wand. – Martha Dec 30 '11 at 0:54

protected by Kevin Sep 3 '13 at 20:53

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