12

In Listen, the Doctor and Clara meet Orson Pink, who, according to Clara, looks similar to Danny Pink. (Both Danny and Orson are played by Samuel Anderson.)

Another clue is Orson mentioning about his great-grandparents telling "silly stories" about time travel. Also, the Doctor and Clara manage to reach Orson's location using the telepathic circuits of TARDIS.

At first, this scene gives an idea that Clara and Danny marry and have children that in a future generation would give birth to Orson Pink. Then, in the Series 8 finale episodes, Danny Pink "dies" and, when given the chance to come back to the real world, sends the Afghan boy Danny kills in a war (possibly the 2001 War in Afghanistan?) to Clara, potentially killing the idea that Orson is related to Danny and Clara.

But the question remains: is Orson Pink a descendent of Clara Oswald and Danny Pink?

  • 1
    Also, the Doctor and Clara manage to reach Orson's location using the telepathic circuits of TARDIS. Don't forget that they also reach the young Danny as well as the young Doctor; both not being directly relatives to Clara in any way (at least so far...). – Mario Nov 23 '14 at 10:47
  • 1
    @Mario The idea being that the telepathic circuits followed what she was thinking about. It led her to young Danny because there is a connection, and she was thinking about him, not because they are related. It was certainly heavily implied that Orson was the descendant of Danny and Clara. – Dave Johnson Nov 24 '14 at 17:14
  • @DaveJohnson True, but how could she "think" about Orson? Let's assume she's been pregnant and thought about the baby, I'd say they should have arrived in the near future - not somewhere else at the location of some grand-grand-whatever-children. – Mario Nov 25 '14 at 8:13
  • @Mario Obviously she was still thinking about Danny, and made it to one of his descendants. "The navigation system is knackered." – Dave Johnson Nov 25 '14 at 13:54
  • 3
    Rule #1, the Moffat lies. – Valorum Dec 13 '14 at 2:00
16

The answer is inconclusive.

If the timeline is to be believed and is indeed correct, there are two possible solutions:

Danny Pink is somehow recovered from the Nethersphere and returned to life. This is unlikely give the circumstances. He appeared to give up his one chance to return to life by sending the young boy in his place.

OR

Clara is pregnant and will indeed bear offspring who will in time, tell tales of time travel and meet the Doctor and their ancestor, Clara in the future. Observe the sticky note that says 3 months... What could that mean? (Was their relationship only three months? Or could it mean something else?)

Screencap of post it notes with names on them

Since the finale just aired, it may be some time before we know which answer will be the correct one.


Moffat has recently weighed in and his official word is the possibility of another family member who may have been given the toy soldier in the future. We are given no further enlightenment so the verdict may never truly be resolved.

“I can think of several explanations, but the obvious one is that Orson comes from another branch of the family. He knows about Danny’s heroic sacrifice, because Clara got in touch with the Pink family after the events of Death in Heaven (because you would, wouldn’t you?), and told them what he did, and why. And she gave them the little soldier, as a keepsake of a great man and a great soldier – and because she knows the toy soldier has to remain in the Pink family line.

“Now all that strikes me as pretty inevitable – that’s what would have happened – but I’m not saying it’s right. Nothing is actual till it’s in the show. Knowing how the season would end, we were careful, in never to define exactly what the connection was.”

  • 4
    or neither of the above occurs. "Time can be rewritten". Perhaps meeting Orson Pink in the future is just one of those "timey wimey" anomalies that theoretically shouldn't have been possible now Danny is dead. – The Giant of Lannister Nov 23 '14 at 0:17
  • 3
    Possibility three: Those stories might originate from Danny only and Clara isn't any relative at all. – Mario Nov 23 '14 at 10:41
  • 1
    When Clara rings Danny at the beginning of the season 8 finale, one of the sticky notes suggests your 2nd point may be correct. – Adeptus Nov 23 '14 at 23:12
  • 1
    @Adeptus It did take about three months to show Series 8 in its entirety. Coincidence? Maybe. Nonetheless, the sticky note might be a clue. – GrrHackPrecioussss Nov 24 '14 at 4:38
  • 2
    I notice Robin Hood gets two sticky notes. Could the baby be his?!?!?!?!?!? – Paul D. Waite Nov 24 '14 at 12:14
3

Steven Moffat provides his opinion regarding Orson Pink's ancestors in the December 2014 issue of Doctor Who Magazine. It appears that Orson Pink may not be a direct descendant of Clara's offspring, but rather a descendant of the offspring from another branch of the Pink family.

“I can think of several explanations, but the obvious one is that Orson comes from another branch of the family. He knows about Danny’s heroic sacrifice, because Clara got in touch with the Pink family after the events of Death in Heaven (because you would, wouldn’t you?), and told them what he did, and why. And she gave them the little soldier, as a keepsake of a great man and a great soldier – and because she knows the toy soldier has to remain in the Pink family line.

“Now all that strikes me as pretty inevitable – that’s what would have happened – but I’m not saying it’s right. Nothing is actual till it’s in the show. Knowing how the season would end, we were careful, in never to define exactly what the connection was.”

Of course, Moffat may be lying to us.

  • 2
    Moffat's never lied before though, surely? :D – franglais Mar 17 '15 at 8:55
1

It is impossible for Clara to have had a child with Danny Pink because (spoiler alert) after Danny dies, Clara still continues to travel with the doctor (if she had a kid don't you think it would have been mentioned or maybe she would have been more careful or not traveled as much?) up until the point at which she dies in front of the doctor. She is then taken out of the moments right before her death, but does not have a pulse. She is frozen in time and basically still dead. Then she goes back in a stolen Tardis with whats her face (the stupid one that amazingly stayed alive through everything??? wtf) to go back to the moment before her death and fix time. She travels along the way, but even then, she couldn't have a child because she was basically dead. Dead people can't have alive children with a dead guy.

  • I wouldn't say impossible. Clara may have been left with her biological processes halted, but there's no certainty that will continue for ever. She has a TARDIS (and, apparently, knows how to use it). She's with "Me" who has a history of not exactly following the rules. She's resourceful. She may be planning on returning to Gallifrey to surrender -- eventually -- but who knows what she'll do on the way, or what she might find out about her situation? – Jules Jul 7 '16 at 11:31
0

Maybe Orson Pink could be a descendant of an alternate version of Clara created when Clara entered the Doctor's timeline on Trenzalore. Through either at least a one nighter with Danny or a relationship with another relative of Danny’s from the time that version of Clara is from had a baby that would lead to Orson Pink.

  • Do you have any evidence that led you to this theory that you could edit in? – TheLethalCarrot Sep 18 at 9:06
-1

Maybe Clara already has the baby but isn't born yet and Danny is the father. There is a sticky note that says, "Three Months" and maybe she's had it for that amount of time, in the episode, Clara could have been wanting to tell Danny about it maybe that's what the sticky note was for.

  • 1
    Hi and welcome :) .. I think this sound more like a comment. – Rocket Jan 18 '15 at 16:57
  • In the Steven Moffat universe, everything is wibbly wobbly timey wimey. :) – GrrHackPrecioussss Jan 19 '15 at 4:53

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.