25

When Yoda said "there is another," I always figured it had to do with Darth Vader. The ending makes much more sense that way.

The counter-argument that I keep seeing is that Yoda was specifically referring to Leia. I don't think that this is necessarily true.

To me it seems like this: Yoda just didn't know who the other hope was. He felt a really strong force, and felt that it had some good in it. It doesn't mean he knew whom it belonged to. He was a Jedi master, not a prophet. Even if it were powerful enough to belong to a Skywalker, we can't really blame Yoda for not considering Vader a candidate. Seems to me that when he said "there is another," he meant exactly that, and nothing more: there is another hope.

Again: I don't think Yoda necessarily knew it was Vader. But I don't think he was sure about it being Leia either. Ben believes Yoda meant Leia, but there is a couple of reasons to think that he and Yoda differed on that. In response to "That boy is our last hope," Yoda's cryptic words are "No. There is another." It is an odd thing to say to Ben, who was well aware that Padme had two children. Yoda would have just said "His sister there always is." Ben's belief that Yoda meant Leia is mistaken, but understandable: Vader was quite a bad guy, and Yoda had reservations about Anakin from the get-go. It seems to me that the viewer is being intentionally misled in order to make Vader's change of heart that much more impactful.

The plot itself also suggests that Vader was the real other last hope. Leia was very helpful, but her help was a bit more general, not reflecting a "last hope" role. In addition, her help had very little to do with her being a Skywalker. She could have done all the stuff she did being a Dolan, Smith, or Schwartzbraum. Her being Luke's sister benefited Han Solo, but that's about it.

However, Darth Vader very much played the role of "another last hope." When Luke was beaten and the need for "another" became real, it was Vader's decision to turn from the dark side that made the difference; he very much delivered on his role as "another." And he did it precisely because he was Luke's father. The last hope did end up resting on a Skywalker - not because of his powers, but because of his love for his son. It makes a lot more sense than Leia's rather unfulfilled "last hope" role.

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    There is another == Leia, the twin sister of Luke. She is force sensitive also. In the EU she had training as a jedi by Luke. – Cherubel Jun 5 '15 at 7:03
  • 32
    This is why us fans are great. Yoda says “there is another”. We all go “who”? In the next movie, the writers explicitly say “Leia. It’s Leia.” And we all go “No, but really, who is it?” It’s Leia. – Paul D. Waite Jun 5 '15 at 9:38
  • 1
    If you were to add "at the time of the release of ESB," the maybe it is ambiguous. But now, knowing what Yoda's last words were, knowing that Yoda was present at the birth of both of Anakin's kids, and knowing that the current theory is that Leia is seen in new trailer being handed a lightsaber, there is absolutely no way it is ambiguous in the slightest. – Dave Johnson Jun 5 '15 at 17:29
  • 1
    @MischaRosnach - The accepted procedure if you're not happy with a dupe's answers is to raise the issue as a comment or post a bounty, not to post a duplicate question. – Valorum Jun 7 '15 at 10:17
  • @Richard: I believe the question is not a dupe, and requires more than a comment's worth of space. It also does not have an answer on the linked page. But the truth is, I suspect that answer I marked is about as much information as I can get. There seems to be no definitive response to the objections I raise - mainly the question just seems to upset fans. I'll just ask some other question :) – Misha R Jun 7 '15 at 14:44
24

In the context of the final in-universe movies

The "other hope" is pretty unambiguously Leia. Even ignoring the prequels, Ben specifically states who Yoda was referring to.

When we add in the prequels, Yoda clearly believes that Leia is an option, at least at the time of her birth, even using the word "hope" when it comes to them.

From Revenge of the Sith:

OBI-WAN: I will take the child and watch over him. Master Yoda, do you think Anakin's twins will be able to defeat Darth Sidious?

YODA: Strong the Force runs, in the Skywalker line. Hope, we can . . . Done, it is. Until the time is right, disappear we will.

In the context of the development of the movies

This is actually slightly fuzzy.

The annotated screenplay touches on the subject. In the second and third draft, Ben and Yoda don't actually have anyone in mind; they're not even entirely sure that there is someone else.

In [the second draft] there's no hint that there may be another hope if Luke fails. In the revised second draft a few lines of dialogue were added as Luke's X-wing disappears in the sky: Yoda says: "Now we must find another." Ben replies: "He is our only hope." And in the third draft, after Luke takes off, Ben says: "The boy is our last hope." Yoda replies: "No ... We must search for another."

George Lucas: "My feeling about Luke being the last hope was really done in an effort to make sure that he was in some jeopardy, that he might not succeed. I was trying to set up subliminally in the audience's mind that something is going on here, that he could fail. And if he does fail, 'there is another hope.' So the audience is saying, 'Don't go, finish your training.'"

Scanning through the screenplay's notes and the relevant scenes, I've been unable to find anything stating unequivocally that Leia was intended as "the other hope" during the production of Empire.

That said, the final screenplay is what we see on the screen - and aside from the changes during development, there is nothing to imply that a decision was not made by the writers/producers regarding Leia as "the other hope". The notes do not cover who Lucas/Kirshner thought might be the hope, only that earlier during development, Ben & Yoda did not have someone in mind.

  • So basically here are my reservations about this. One: Ben says the bit about Leia being their last hope. But Yoda does not. If they wanted to unequivocally explain Yoda's statement, they would have just had Yoda say it, as opposed to being cryptic and then having Ben interpret it. Two: Leia makes for a weak last-hope character, whereas Vader very much delivers. To me those two things indicate an intentional twist in which the writers wanted to make Vader's redemption even more dramatic. Do you know if if Lucas said anything specific about Leia's role here? – Misha R Jun 5 '15 at 15:45
  • Like I said in the answer, I can't find anything contradicting Leia being "the other hope" - just that at one point, Ben & Yoda did not have anyone in mind. – phantom42 Jun 5 '15 at 16:07
  • Actually, that answers my question quite well. I'm not entirely convinced that the writers had a consensus on this, and to me my initial impulse about Yoda not being sure and Ben making a mistake remains a bit more real than Leia being the other "last hope." But the part about them initially not having anyone in mind goes a long way. Initial ambiguity in the writing often results in some ambiguity in the end. Thanks for understanding my question, btw :) It seems to have been a bit confusing. – Misha R Jun 5 '15 at 16:19
  • It's pretty cold for Yoda to tell Luke to sacrifice Leia and stay to finish his training, "if you honor what she fights for", and then pretend like she's some last hope. Unless he somehow knew that Leia would be saved by Luke but didn't know that Luke wouldn't turn to the dark side? Which seems very weird. – TVann Dec 28 '16 at 15:05
  • "Always in motion, the future is.". Yoda didn't know what would happen for sure. – phantom42 Dec 28 '16 at 16:14
51

There is a dialogue in Episode VI, that explains who Yoda meant with "another":

BEN
Then the Emperor has already won. You were our only hope.

LUKE
Yoda spoke of another.

BEN
The other he spoke of is your twin sister.

There is also Yoda’s last words, which echo his line in Empire, and which he says after Luke has learned that Vader is actually Anakin Skywalker:

YODA ... There is...another...Sky...Sky...walker.

Yoda and Obi Wan always knew that Luke had a twin sister (Episode III), another Skywalker, who had the strong force potential that their Father had. If Luke failed, there is still another potential force-sensitive Skywalker that could be trained to be a Jedi.

Considering the end of Episode III, I don't think Yoda could have meant Vader. Obi Wan and Yoda both were traumatised by Anakin’s actions. Even with the potential of redemption, counting on him to turn back to the light side is not a good idea.

And given Ben’s line, it really seems like the screenwriters were trying to clearly state that Yoda had Leia in mind.

  • <comments removed> Take the discussions to chat. – user1027 Jun 6 '15 at 15:00
0

"Over the past four centuries we have seen the Jedi declare war on the agents of the dark side time and time again. It is a struggle that never ends. And with each conflict, more civilians are swept up in your web of war. Innocent beings die as armies align with you or your enemies. Worlds loyal to the Republic break away, fracturing a once united galaxy. It is time to put a stop to this cycle of madness." Quoted from Darth Bane-The Rule of Two.

The Jedi are sectarian by their very own choice. I wouldn't consider them the 'good-guys', and especially master Yoda was losing a lot of the mystical veil (secretive fuss made about him) in both, the Clone Wars TV series and the 3 made-later but meant earlier Star Wars movies.

Yoda failed on Darth Vader and Yoda was weak on sensing the force, whenever it was a topic. So Leia may not have been his best precognition either. But then the scene may have been placed to inform the audience, or simply to stop making Luke an Ubermensch of the Force while his sister paled in comparison (actor-contracts, behind the scenes stuff).

Personally I was most disappointed, when this cookie-wisdom green kobold, during dueling with the finally unmasked Sith Master, turned out to be actually a warrior-brute, and no in any form mentally advanced force-user. It is a bit like the barbarian who finds out that elite university had its value straight after skull-crushing the last doctor who did warn him about in examples diseases or radiation being not that easily clubbered to Death.

Summarized: Master Yoda postures a lot, so we will never really know, but I suspect he did not really know.

  • Ok, this is clearly wrong. Yoda is definitely a goblin and not a kobold. – Misha R Jun 6 '15 at 20:21
  • I contemplated it for a while and found his lack of charisma to be problematic. Though remembering Spiderman I know translation sometimes makes it tricky. 'The Green Goblin' had been translated with 'The Green Kobold' in the German comics. – user46648 Jun 7 '15 at 0:00
0

I think Yoda is referring to another Skywalker that we do not yet know about. At the end of the clone wars Yoda is trained to live on through the force after his death. The reason for this is to train the one that will bring peace to the galaxy. The force spirits that train him also tell him there is another skywalker. At this point in the saga the only living skywalker we know of is Anakin, as his mother died on Tattoine. Yoda trained Luke while he was still living. So when Yoda says there is another to Ben in episode 4, he wasn't talking about Leia. He couldn't be, they both knew of her existence. The living force did not bring her to train with Yoda.

-1

I believe that Yoda was referring to Star Killer. If you remember in the games Star Killer goes and meets with Yoda.

  • 4
    Highly unlikely, that character was invented decades later and if I remember he was already dead by this point anyway. – Yora Dec 3 '16 at 19:46
-1

When the line "that boy is our last hope" is said, Yoda gets bathed in a greenish blue light, representing Luke. However, when Yoda says, "No, there is another," he gets bathed in a red light, representing Darth Vader. You must remember that every element in a movie is an intentional choice, and that this isn't the only time that these colors are used to represent their affiliated characters, and let you know who is being discussed. The point here being that, Darth Vader is the other. This makes sense since Darth Vader is actually the Hero of the story, in other words, it's about his journey and his path for redemption. The story is merely being told through Luke's eyes. This is why it is Darth Vader who finds his place among the Jedi Master by the end of the story. Furthermore, the thing people use to justify Leia as being the other hope is just Obi-Wan's quote, but as you'll recall, he didn't know who Yoda was referring to any more than the viewer did, and this is his own misconception, one which is used as a misdirect for the viewers. Luke is not present for all key elements of the story, which involve the struggle in the balance of the force, only Darth Vader is, because it's his story.

There is also Yoda’s last words, which echo his line in Empire, and which he says after Luke has learned that Vader is actually Anakin Skywalker:

YODA ... There is...another...Sky...Sky...walker.

The fact he says this after Vader acknowledges he is a skywalker and not before, should also let you know he wasn't talking about leia.

OBI-WAN: I will take the child and watch over him. Master Yoda, do you think Anakin's twins will be able to defeat Darth Sidious?

YODA: Strong the Force runs, in the Skywalker line. Hope, we can . . . Done, it is. Until the time is right, disappear we will.

This line doesn't mention Leia as an additional hope, it mentions BOTH TWINS as the original hope. Further proof that it is Darth Vader who is the other hope. Obi wan spoke with certainty all the time in the prequels, and was constantly wrong.

Look at the prophecy of the chosen one: "Another depiction of the prophecy was a cave painting in the Ophuchi Sanctuary. According to the Ophuchi interpretation, the painting showed an enslaved dove rising up and defeating a serpent that slowly tried to corrupt and destroy him to catch him as its prey. When the serpent was destroyed, rain that had not fallen in the desert for many years would fall again. The Ophuchi believed that a drought would overtake Tatooine the day that the Chosen One was born, and that he would be aided in his task by one called the Argus who would free the Chosen One from his shackles before vanquishing the serpent."

The enslaved dove, is Darth Vader. The serpent trying to corrupt him is Emperor Palpatine. The Argus is Luke, who causes Darth Vader to rebel against Emperor Palpatine. So you are telling me, YOU honestly think, the PERSON DESTINED TO RETURN THE BALANCE TO THE FORCE, who GEORGE LUCAS CONFIRMED WAS "officially the Chosen One and not Luke," wasn't the other hope, but Leia was?

  • Got to say, even when ben explains that he THINKS its leia, he, himself, is unconvinced. He is like, you were our last hope. The other hope? He probably meant your sister and shes poop, so we are all doomed. Thanks Luke, way to blow it. – kelth Apr 19 '17 at 7:18
-2

I gotta agree that Yoda refers to Vader. For one, the original prophecy w Anakin is that he would be the one who brings balance to the force, which he fulfills. Secondly, when Yoda makes the statement the red light from Luke's X-Wing shines bright on Yoda's face. That is not a mistake or coincidence, that is specifically done to foreshadow.

  • 1
    Can you explain why Yoda is making a statement like this to Obi-Wan, who already knows about Vader? – KutuluMike Jan 24 '16 at 5:09
  • @MikeEdenfield Can you explain why is Yoda making a cryptic statement like "No, there is another" to Obi-Wan? Obi-Wan already knows Luke has a sister, so there would be little point in being mysterious with him about her. – Misha R Jan 24 '16 at 20:01
  • In the interest of keeping it accurate, I didn't actually say that Yoda refers to Vader. I proposed that Yoda didn't actually know whom it was that he sensed - and that it turned out to be Vader. I think if Yoda knew for sure, he probably would have phrased it differently. – Misha R Jan 25 '16 at 14:03

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