DS9 Adversary:

(The Founder knocks out O'Brien as the blast doors come down. Odo grabs him.)

COMPUTER: Engine room sealed. (The founder morphs his arm into Odo's abdomen, and Odo starts to ripple.)

FOUNDER: Why are you protecting these solids? You don't belong with them. You belong with us.

COMPUTER: Auto-destruct in three minutes.

FOUNDER: Let go. Don't you see? You've lost. It's too late for you to help them but it's not too late to help yourself. Link with me, Odo. We can escape together.

ODO: I don't think so. (Odo morphs his hands into the founder as his body becomes solid again. The founder goes gooey and Odo picks him up and pushes him against the warp core. The energy discharge throws Odo off as the founder fries.)

COMPUTER: Auto-destruct in two minutes.

ODO: (to dazed O'Brien) You have to regain control of the ship. (The founder part reforms, looking very desiccated.)


ODO: I never wanted to harm you.

Just before this the other changeling is hurting odo or at least appears to be. Is odo the first to harm or kill another changeling?

Now that I think of it, since this changeling attacked odo before odo attacked him back, wouldn't this be the first example of one changeling harming another?

Why isn't it possible that a changeling harmed another before this episode, regardless of what the female founder (whose morals are questionable at best) states many times?

If there are any writers notes, or EU info available that would be more then welcomed.

  • 6
    They literally state this in the show- "No changeling has ever harmed another". – PointlessSpike Jun 10 '15 at 8:28
  • 8
    @PointlessSpike: of course, they (the Founders) might be lying. – Paul D. Waite Jun 10 '15 at 8:56
  • 1
    @PaulD.Waite judging by the fact they had no idea how to punish Odo, they might've not been lying that one time – Petersaber Jun 10 '15 at 9:49
  • 1
    @Petersaber: oh yeah they often tell the truth. – Paul D. Waite Jun 10 '15 at 9:56
  • 2
    @Petersaber I don't understand your first comment. The "show" consists of several hundreds of tv episodes, 10+ movies, lots of books (some canon, some not). It is impossible for a single person to watch and remember all of these. Sharing knowledge is the main point of StackOverflow. And sharing knowledge starts by asking question. – vap78 Jun 11 '15 at 11:32

Yes. According to the Founder (in DS9: Broken Link), Odo is indeed the first in their history to commit violence against another of their species:

ODO: No changeling has ever harmed another.

FOUNDER: Until you. That's why we forced you to return home to enter into the Great Link and be judged.

Notably, in an earlier episode (DS9: The Adversary) it's explicitly confirmed that Odo is well aware of this restriction and happy to share that knowledge freely:

EDDINGTON: Keep your phasers on stun. And stay calm. I don't want anyone getting nervous and shooting one of us by mistake. You sure I can't interest you in one of these?

ODO: I don't use them. Besides, in the history of my people, no changeling has ever harmed another. I'd hate to be the first.

  • But in this episode which is earlier the other changeling attacks Odo first and harms Odo. I just watched the episode the other day. I'm wondering if she's a liar or there's something else. The Changelings are hardly a moral race at least by our standards. It's hard to believe they never harmed one another before. I always felt like they just wanted Odo to join them, and they felt in some way they failed by not getting him too. They are clearly a violent race. And in this episode Odo gets attacked first, so clearly Odo didn't initiate the contact or the struggle, it was self defense. – JMFB Jun 11 '15 at 18:21
  • 2
    @JMFB - Attacking someone evidently isn't akin to "harming" them. Note that until they sent out 'the hundred', they'd never really had any sort of dissent in their own ranks. – Valorum Jun 11 '15 at 18:22
  • Odo did the exact same attack back. I'm not sure how he even knew this attack or was able to overcome the other changeling. – JMFB Jun 11 '15 at 18:31
  • 2
    Considering the nature of Changelings and the Link, it's likely that a physical confrontation between two Changelings isn't harmful in the solid lifeform sense. With the sharing of mind and memories that takes place during a Link, a physical confrontation between Changelings may in fact be mental - one forcing the other to change his mind via the Link. The "harm" was when Odo threw him against the warp core and killed him. After all, Changelings are demonstrably difficult to physically damage. – T.J.L. Oct 6 '15 at 19:45

Yes. That's why he faces such severe and unique consequences later. The Female Changeling makes a note of that many, many times.


No, at least it's easily possible that a few of the many baby Changelings which were sent out into space, attacked and killed each other centuries before Odo learned to take shape.

  • I'm not sure if you are saying the answer is "no" or "it's possible". – Blackwood Jan 23 '17 at 23:24

An answer of questionable canonicity - especially with "Picard" around the corner to potentially either throw a spanner in the works or to provide corroboration, but in the Star Trek Online mission "Tenebris Torquent" (part of the "Victory is Life" expansion released mid-2018) it is revealed that

The Female Founder captured at the end of Deep Space Nine had previously (thousands of years before) killed the other Changelings involved in the creation of the Jem'Hadar to cover up both the brutal experiments involved, and the accidental unleashing of the Hur'q and Fek'Ihri who wreaked havoc across the galaxy.

The Hur'q were a powerful but peaceful race who depended on a chemical present in plants/fungi on their home planet - a precursor to Ketracel White. When the militant changelings stole and destroyed this to try and force the Hur'q to become their slaves, the withdrawal symptoms instead turned them into a mindless destructive force.

When the Fek'Ihri were created by genetic modification, inspired by (and then in turn inspiring) the Demons of Klingon legend, they were also created with a Ketracel dependency. However, they developed an immunity to the addiction - but, again, this left them destructive and out of control.

Third time lucky, the Jem'Hadar were created - loyal soldiers, addicted to Ketracel White, who would fight and conquer for their creators, paving the way for the creation of the Dominion.

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.