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DS9 "Sons of Mogh":

KURN: I have never understood you, Worf. But I do know this. In your own way you are an honourable man. (Kurn passes out.)

WORF: And you will be an honourable man again, but not as my brother.

Then right after:

WORF: What will he remember?

BASHIR: He'll know he's a Klingon, and how to speak the language, and virtually everything he needs to know in order to survive, except who he is. And that's the first question he'll ask. Who am I? Do you have an answer?

WORF: There is a man named Noggra, a friend of our father's. He will be arriving in a few hours. He has agreed to provide Kurn with a new identity and a new family. He will supply Kurn with all the answers he needs.

BASHIR: Are you absolutely certain about this, Worf? Once I've erase his memory engrams it'll be almost impossible to restore them. He won't remember you or anything about his real life.

WORF: It is the only way. You may begin.

Kurn's lineage is still the house of Mogh a dishonored house. Kurn's "soul" is still the same. He wanted Worf to kill him to regain his honor so his soul would go to Stovokor (Klingon Heaven).

Erasing Kurn's memory, changing some DNA, doing plastic surgery, and changing where he lives hardly seems to change the main issues which caused his dishonor. His lineage is still the same. If simply adoption into a new house was a legal way to regain honor they could have done this with Kurn's consent.

How does this restore Kurns honor?

  • Presumably, Kurn's new persona is considered a new person, a blank slate. Merely making this transition doesn't restore his honor, but gives him a platform from which to establish it anew. – Politank-Z Jun 12 '15 at 18:14
  • Perhaps honor can't be restored by being adopted into a new house, but if everyone thinks he is part of the bloodline of the new house, he will have his honor back--and as an honorable Klingon he wouldn't be willing to consciously lie about his bloodline, making the memory change necessary? – Hypnosifl Jun 12 '15 at 18:14
  • I think asking about Kurn's soul in your series of questions about this topic is confusing the issue. We have no idea how souls work or if they even exist (in real life or in Star Trek). – Ellesedil Jun 12 '15 at 18:38
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    @ellesedil between tng, ds9 and voyager, er have enough info to say Klingons have a solid understanding on how their souls work or how they expect/believe it to work. Heck, remember spock put his soul in Bones? – user16696 Jun 12 '15 at 18:58
  • @Politank-Z so his lineage, Klingon law, etc. don't matter? Isn't that all that really matters to Klingons(except maybe Worf)? – JMFB Jun 12 '15 at 19:08
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Who said this was legal in the society. He will have a new untarnished identity that noone but a few people will know the truth. Everyone else will think he's a random Klingon from a standard honorable house. Not counting actual Klingon afterlife, this will be the same as being honorable. And since Klingons can go from being dishonorable to honorable through their actions, even actual Klingon afterlife can consider him honorable in the future.

Honor in Klingon is as subjective as any status in real life. You are only as rich/well-mannered/famous/good/important as others think you are. If Noone thinks you are an Honorable Klingon, even if you really are, you are not honorable. How mortal Klingon society is involved, honor is subject to group consensus. We see plenty of Klingons on screen who are not honorable, but in universe they are still considered Honorable until proven otherwise.

  • Kurn's main reason for coming to Worf was to regain his honor and go to Stovokor. His and Klingon's belief is that you have to have honor to go to Stovokor. Worf killing Kurn would be an honorable death and therefore Kurn would end up in Stovokor. The legalities of Klingon society govern what is honorable. What you're suggesting is that this is more convenient for everyone involved, but that doesn't change his status or the status of his soul, right? – JMFB Jun 12 '15 at 19:06
  • If man made laws affect the soul, no. But if we consider honor to be as meaningless and subjective as "criminal" or "knighthood" or "freedom fighter/terrorist" or "good king/tyrant". – user16696 Jun 12 '15 at 19:10
  • If you commit a crime, and you don't know you did, and Noone else knows you did, are you a criminal? – user16696 Jun 12 '15 at 19:11
  • We are speaking only of Klingon customs right now. Even Worf believes in them enough to try and kill Kurn. It only matters if under Klingon law his honor is restored. I'm not sure this does it. Maybe it does, but I'm confused about the mechanism. – JMFB Jun 12 '15 at 19:16
  • Ha Ha, we are all criminals then. We all break the law. Ever drive over the speed limit? LOL. In any event we can debate these sort of philosophical ism's all day. Can god make a rock that god can't lift? – JMFB Jun 12 '15 at 19:18

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