Timeline for Have the requirements for knighthood changed over time?
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| Jun 16, 2020 at 9:31 | history | edited | CommunityBot |
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| Nov 8, 2016 at 6:42 | history | edited | Aegon | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Nov 7, 2016 at 12:00 | comment | added | Paul | @Aegon, i didn't debate that you were correct, only hat the one piece of evidence I mentioned was inconclusive. | |
| Nov 7, 2016 at 11:58 | history | edited | Aegon | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Nov 7, 2016 at 11:56 | comment | added | Aegon | @Paul That is exactly why we have to see all the events about knighthood to reach a conclusion by observing a pattern. The knighting of Gendry however provides clear cut view that there was no vigil or anointing so it proves it is not necessary | |
| Nov 7, 2016 at 11:55 | comment | added | Paul | While I think this answer is as good and correct as it will get, I think the quote from Jaimes memory is inconclusive. While it doesn't mention the anointing, it also isn't precisely a blow-by-blow account of the event. I don't see a reason to assume it didn't happen based on that passage. | |
| Nov 7, 2016 at 11:53 | history | edited | Aegon | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Nov 7, 2016 at 11:49 | comment | added | Aegon | Was Ser Arthur Dayne creating his own tradition when he knighted Jaime without having him anointed by a Septon first? Did Beric Dondarrion create his own tradiiton when he knighted peasants without a vigil or anointment? | |
| Nov 7, 2016 at 11:48 | comment | added | Aegon | @MikeScott That's precisely the difference. The whole idea presented from the olden days is that only dubbing by a knight is required to make a knight. So she asks a knight. As for Bloodriders, she takes it upon herself to actually be the first woman to make bloodriders even though they initially refused. She did not take it upon herself to make knights. | |
| Nov 7, 2016 at 11:46 | comment | added | Mike Scott | She's inventing her own tradition, loosely based on the existing tradition. Exactly like she did when she took Drogo's bloodriders as her own, as no woman had ever done before. | |
| Nov 7, 2016 at 11:41 | comment | added | Aegon | @MikeScott If that was true (That dany doesnt follow traditions or the laws of Westeros mean nothing in Meereen), she would never have asked a knight to perform the knighting. She would have done it herself. So yes, she is following the tradition there. Of course one can argue that she doesn't know Westerosi culture much but both Jorah and Barristan do. If the legality of the ceremony is irrelevant here, then why bother with the question at all as it is my impression that the whole question is about impacts of different rites on legality of knighthood? | |
| Nov 7, 2016 at 11:34 | comment | added | Mike Scott | The legality of the ceremony is irrelevant here -- Dany and Arstan are not in Westeros and therefore not under the jurisdiction of Westerosi law. And in any case, the legality of the ceremony would have the same basis as the legality of her claim to the throne. | |
| Nov 7, 2016 at 11:03 | history | edited | Aegon | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Nov 7, 2016 at 10:18 | history | edited | Aegon | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Nov 7, 2016 at 10:10 | comment | added | Aegon | As for Daenerys being no follower of Tradition, can you elaborate on that? How would her personal attitude impact on actual legality of a ceremony? The response of Whitebeard and Jorah makes it clear that they thought the ceremony would be nevertheless binding even if there is no septon to anoint or even if Whitebeard did not stand his vigil | |
| Nov 7, 2016 at 10:08 | comment | added | Aegon | @MikeScott There's Jaime's vigil there. He stood the vigil but did not get anointed by his own account. The anointment by High Septon of Balon and Osmund is there to show that anointment by High Septon can be performed on people who are already knights and therefore has no consequence on their actual knighthood. There is also 600 knighthoods after battle of Blackwater in which there is no mention of anointment at all. Jorah most probably did not get anointed by a Septon because it is unlikely that Robert took septons with him and there are no Septons on Iron Islands since days of Aenys I | |
| Nov 7, 2016 at 9:56 | comment | added | Mike Scott | I don't see any evidence here that the vigil and anointment are optional in "modern" times -- both your good quotations for that are from the time of Dunk & Egg. Dany is no respecter of tradition, and would never say "I would have Arstan knighted, but there's no septon here, so I guess I can't". And Balon Swann and Osmund Kettleblack could have been and presumably were anointed when they were knighted and then anointed again by the High Septon when they joined the Kingsguard, | |
| Nov 7, 2016 at 9:53 | history | edited | Aegon | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Nov 7, 2016 at 9:37 | history | answered | Aegon | CC BY-SA 3.0 |