Skip to main content
Add missing accent
Link
DavidW
  • 142.7k
  • 34
  • 608
  • 750

Was Carn DumDûm of Angmar built over Utumno?

Add image alt text.
Source Link
DavidW
  • 142.7k
  • 34
  • 608
  • 750

While rereading the SilmarillionThe Silmarillion, I've been having some fun contrasting maps of Middle-Earthearth during different ages (found just by Googling.)

I noticed something odd. Consider this map of the First Age:

enter image description hereFonstad map of Arda in the First Age, showing Endor meeting Aman in the west and the spine of the Ered Engrin reaching from the Helcaraxë to the East Sea.  The Ruins of Utumno are noted in the Ered Engrin between the Ered Luin and the Hithaeglir.

One can see the ruins of Utumno in the middle of the Iron Mountains in the north.

Now take a look at this map of the Second Age:

enter image description hereFonstad map of Arda in the Second Age, with Middle-earth sundered from Aman and Beleriand lost (noted as "Lands Under the Wave").  Most of the Ered Engrin have been cast down with only scattered traces remaining.

Here Beleriand has sunk into the sea, but one can still trace the line of the Iron Mountains, with a hill in the north of Eriador roughly in the same location as Utumno, east of the Ice Bay.

Now compare that spot with a map from the Third Age:

Third Age MapThird Age Map

That hill appears to be the site of Carn DumDûm, the capital of Angmar.

My question, with a few follow-ups:

  • Did JRRT or CT ever indicate in writing that these sites were geographically close?
  • If so was the proximity intentional?
  • Does anyone recognize the first two maps or can say anything about their authenticity (or lack of)?

While rereading the Silmarillion, I've been having some fun contrasting maps of Middle-Earth during different ages (found just by Googling.)

I noticed something odd. Consider this map of the First Age:

enter image description here

One can see the ruins of Utumno in the middle of the Iron Mountains in the north.

Now take a look at this map of the Second Age:

enter image description here

Here Beleriand has sunk into the sea, but one can still trace the line of the Iron Mountains, with a hill in the north of Eriador roughly in the same location as Utumno, east of the Ice Bay.

Now compare that spot with a map from the Third Age:

Third Age Map

That hill appears to be the site of Carn Dum, the capital of Angmar.

My question, with a few follow-ups:

  • Did JRRT or CT ever indicate in writing that these sites were geographically close?
  • If so was the proximity intentional?
  • Does anyone recognize the first two maps or can say anything about their authenticity (or lack of)?

While rereading The Silmarillion, I've been having some fun contrasting maps of Middle-earth during different ages (found just by Googling.)

I noticed something odd. Consider this map of the First Age:

Fonstad map of Arda in the First Age, showing Endor meeting Aman in the west and the spine of the Ered Engrin reaching from the Helcaraxë to the East Sea.  The Ruins of Utumno are noted in the Ered Engrin between the Ered Luin and the Hithaeglir.

One can see the ruins of Utumno in the middle of the Iron Mountains in the north.

Now take a look at this map of the Second Age:

Fonstad map of Arda in the Second Age, with Middle-earth sundered from Aman and Beleriand lost (noted as "Lands Under the Wave").  Most of the Ered Engrin have been cast down with only scattered traces remaining.

Here Beleriand has sunk into the sea, but one can still trace the line of the Iron Mountains, with a hill in the north of Eriador roughly in the same location as Utumno, east of the Ice Bay.

Now compare that spot with a map from the Third Age:

Third Age Map

That hill appears to be the site of Carn Dûm, the capital of Angmar.

My question, with a few follow-ups:

  • Did JRRT or CT ever indicate in writing that these sites were geographically close?
  • If so was the proximity intentional?
  • Does anyone recognize the first two maps or can say anything about their authenticity (or lack of)?
edited tags
Link
Mithical
  • 39.1k
  • 17
  • 182
  • 230
deleted 117 characters in body
Source Link
Valorum
  • 718k
  • 163
  • 4.8k
  • 5k
Loading
replaced http://2.bp.blogspot.com/ with https://2.bp.blogspot.com/
Source Link
Loading
Tweeted twitter.com/#!/StackSciFi/status/435272280017743872
Source Link
phs
  • 354
  • 1
  • 2
  • 11
Loading