Was Luke in “Return of the Jedi” really “better” than Obi Wan in “Revenge of the Sith?”

Question

At the end of Revenge of the Sith, Obi Wan and Yoda went into hiding. They thought they were not able to defeat the Sith and the Empire. They hoped that the newborn twins (Luke and Leia) will be able to someday.

Yoda was nearly a match for the emperor in Revenge of the Sith. In Return of the Jedi he was old and died.

Obi Wan beats Anakin in Revenge of the Sith and (as far as I know) Anakin was stronger than Darth Vader. So Obi Wan could surely beat Darth Vader shortly after Revenge of the Sith. In A New Hope Obi Wan was old and not able to beat Vader and died.

Luke (even after Yoda’s training) was not nearly able to oppose Vader (in The Empire Strikes Back). I do not know what happened between The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi that makes him better, but even in Return of the Jedi he barely beats Vader. He wasn't remotely a match for the Emperor, who was only killed due to the surprise attack from Vader.

The Empire was just born at the end of Revenge of the Sith. In Return of the Jedi it was consolidated and had stabilized over 20 years.

So my question is, weren't the chances of Obi Wan and Yoda at the end (or shortly after) Revenge of the Sith to take out the Emperor, Darth Vader and the Empire much, much greater than the chances of Luke when he (indirectly) finally did it in Return of the Jedi? We can even discuss if Luke contributed anything in taking out the Empire, the Emperor and Vader, because he wasn’t involved in the destruction of the Death Star II (over Endor)—that would have happened even without him—and would have killed Vader and the Emperor also.

So was this a great misjudgment from Obi Wan and Yoda that the baby twins, or at least one of them, years later will be a better match than themselves?

Bonus Question: If the sake of the whole galaxy is at stake and Obi Wan and Yoda became old and weak, why didn’t they start to train Luke earlier? Just because uncle Owen didn't like it? Or did they resign and give up over time and the coincidences in A New Hope just woke them up again?

Answer 1

I'm going to argue that Luke "defeated" the Emperor not through strength in the Force, not through skill in the Force, but by his unique positioning to stand at the intersection of the Light and Dark sides of the force and his unique relationship to Anakin which allowed him to influence Vader.

So the answer to your question is, Luke's chances were better because (hand-wave) it's not the battle you thought it was.

I'm going to start by co-opting @Mike.C.Ford's contention that Luke struggled with an attraction to the Dark Side - his failure of the test on Dagobah, his casual use of cruel methods when rescuing Han Solo, his hatred when fighting Vader. All these things are true. He definitely was dipping his toes in the same waters which had drowned his father Anakin and given birth to Darth Vader.

So let's compare there - Yoda and Obi-Wan had no such ambiguity. The Emperor would not be attracted to them; they would be opponents, not potential candidates. Any contact between those parties could only lead to conflict, with no quarter given or received. Only Luke would be allowed in the Emperor's presence long enough to be taunted and tempted. Advantage, Luke.

The Dark Side is - it must be said - attractive. The level of caution that the Jedi express about its temptations, the way it asserts itself even over people who know they should be fighting it, everything we know about it suggests it is both subtle and addictive. One does not simply walk away from the Dark Side. And yet Luke, tempted, alternately beaten and beckoned, on the very edge of succumbing, chose to reject it, was willing to die rather than convert. Was willing to assert, by example, that one can always choose to reject the Dark Side. Advantage, Luke.

Finally, as Anakin Skywalker's son, rejecting the Dark Side at that time and place exerted pressures on Darth Vader that no one else could exert. He simultaneously appealed to his father - not when he asked for help, but by refusing to hurt him - and suggested that it was still possible, even for Darth Vader, to reject the Dark Side and choose redemption via his actions. We saw how Anakin's relationship with Obi-Wan was conflicted by distrust and jealousy; there is no way Obi-Wan or Yoda could pull at his buried affections the way Anakin's long-lost Son could. Advantage, Luke.

The fact that Luke could put up a credible fight with the lightsaber was helpful; without that, he also would not have been attractive to the Emperor. But it was not his skill with the blade or his strength in the force that made Vader decide to pick up his master and throw him into the pit.

Answer 2

If the question is why didn't Obi-Wan and Yoda try to take out the Emperor & Vader themselves, I think this question provides enough explanation.

As for why Luke was able to defeat Vader at the end of ROTJ, it's because he was using the Dark Side of the force to defeat Vader.

The Emperor says it himself:

Good, good... let the hate flow through you

Luke uses plenty of dark side force techniques in ROTJ, including force-choking one of Jabba's guards; clearly he's falling to the dark side. At the point that he's fighting Vader the Emperor has manipulated him quite well to start using the dark side in order to get Luke to take up his father's place as his apprentice.

So as for whether Luke was better (i.e. more skilled/ better trained etc.) than Obi-Wan at the time he defeated Vader whereas Obi-Wan died, probably not. But he was undoubtedly stronger.

Answer 3

(We can even discuss if Luke contributed anything in taking out the empire, emperor and Vader, because he wasn't involved in the destruction of the death star, that would have happened even without him and would have killed Vader and the Emperor also).

I have always assumed that if the Emperor weren't distracted by Luke, he'd have sensed the tide of battle turning against him and prevented the destruction of the Death Star. If nothing else, it would have been simple enough for he and Vader to pop back down to Endor and kick some rebel/Ewok rear themselves, preventing the shield from ever coming down.

Now, distraction wasn't Luke's intention, but it worked out. IMO we have to assume that Luke was at some level being guided by the Force.

Answer 4

First off...it's a movie. Saying that this person would beat that person because of how they did in a battle especially a battle using 1977 technology is ridiculous. Anakin was stronger the Obi-wan in ROTS...by far. Even Obi-wan said it. He lost because he got stuck over the lava and Obi-wan had the higher ground. It wouldn't have been much of a movie if Anakin simply crushed Obi-Wan. You can't look at the lightsaber battles that needed to be exciting and close and use that to say who would win or who would be stronger. The individual lightsaber battles had to be close or it would be boring. Did you see Duku pretty much even with Yoda in episode2, then Anakin crushed Duku in ROTS? You just have to look at the story that was laid out and not individual battles for the purpose of an exciting battle. The story is that Anakin/Darth Vader is the strongest with the force out of all of them. He was still young and reckless, but was the strongest and the emperor knew it. So, regardless of who won this battle or that battle, Vader was the strongest because that is what Lucas decided, which is why everyone says it...yoda, obi-wan, the emperor, etc. The lightsaber battles where there to tell a story and make for an exciting movie. Vader was the chosen one and fulfilled the prophecy as stated. It just wasn't known in what manner he would do it.Luke was not the chosen one...he was not created from the force like Anakin was.