Why not send the Ring to the Undying Lands? [duplicate]

Question

This is sort of a multi-part question that adds up to one larger question:

1. Can Sauron get to the Undying Lands? (another question seems to have produced the answer to this - "No")
2. Is the One Ring still dangerous even if Sauron can't possibly get to it?
3. Is Elrond strong enough to resist the Ring?
4. Could the Ring be taken to the Undying Lands, perhaps by Frodo, Bilbo, or Elrond?

Assuming the answers to these questions are 1. no, 2. not really, 3. yes, and 4. yes, then wouldn't it be feasible for someone to just bring the Ring to the Undying Lands and give/send it to someone who could safely hold on to it? Say, perhaps, Eru Ilúvatar, Manwë, Elbereth, Círdan, etc.? This wouldn't require the person in question to actively intercede in worldly affairs - they would merely have to accept a gift and keep it forever. Since Humans (and/or Elves and/or Hobbits or whoever) took the initiative in getting the Ring there, it would be more or less the same as bringing it to Mordor and destroying it, but less suffering and loss of life would be required in the process.

So basically, the overall question is: Why not send the Ring to the Undying Lands?

*Note - since sea monsters never seem to attack ships carrying Elves, Valar, or Maiar to the Undying Lands, despite Sauron's hatred of them, the sea monster issue is irrelevant. In any case, this question isn't about whether the ship would get there safely if passage were granted - it is about whether passage WOULD be granted and whether it would solve the problem.

*Note 2 - granted, this wouldn't get rid of Sauron, but Aragorn was free to set the terms of the Army of the Dead's deployment. If he said "You must serve for a thousand years" instead of "You have to fight one battle", then the Army of the Dead could have roamed through Middle-earth and Mordor killing off every Orc and goblin Sauron enlisted. Sauron would still exist, but he would be a more or less powerless eye stuck on top of a tower, with no hope of raising and army for a thousand years. If Aragorn said "You must serve forever", Sauron would be deprived of an army forever.

Answer 1

Can Sauron get to Aman?

This is unclear. As dlanod's answer to the linked question notes, Aman has been removed from the circles of the world, and is only accessible via the Straight Way. The Elves are, of course, allowed to follow this road to Aman.

What's unclear to me is how the Straight Way works. There are a lot of unknowns.

For example, it's possible that the Straight Way is accessible by any ship on the correct bearing. If so, then Sauron could probably build his own ships and (eventually) find it.

It's also possible that the Elven-ships are under some enchantment that allows only them to pass into Aman. If so, then Sauron would have to fight all the way to the Grey Havens (before the inhabitants destroyed all the ships). It would be supremely unlikely to succeed, but not impossible.

Finally, it's possible that the Valar themselves individually decide whether each ship is allowed to pass into Aman. The odds of them letting Sauron through are astronomically slim.

However, even if Sauron could get to Aman, he's not dumb enough to try. It's worth noting that when he sends Ar-Pharazôn and his men to invade Valinor, Sauron stayed behind:

For Sauron himself was filled with great fear at the wrath of the Valar, and the doom that Eru laid upon sea and land. It was greater far than aught he had looked for, hoping only for the death of the Númenóreans and the defeat of their proud king. And Sauron, sitting in his black seat in the midst of the Temple, had laughed when he heard the trumpets of Ar-Pharazôn sounding for battle; and again he had laughed when he heard the thunder of the storm;

^{_{The Silmarillion IV Akallabêth}}

Granted, this takes place relatively early in Sauron's role as Dark Lord; he has grown more powerful in the intervening millenia. But he's not strong enough to contend with all the Valar combined, and that's assuming they don't call on Eru again.

Trying to invade Aman is suicide, and Sauron knows it.

Is the Ring dangerous if it's beyond Sauron's grasp?

This is unknowable, but I submit to you that it's the wrong question to ask. A better question would be "is Sauron still dangerous if the Ring is beyond his grasp?", and the answer it a resounding "Yes." Even without the Ring, the Elves consider Sauron's victory to be practically inevitable. I can't point to any particular quote, but that's the general tone of the Council of Elrond.

Of course the ultimate danger of leaving the Ring undestroyed (even if it's beyond Sauron's grasp forever), is that there is no other way of destroying Sauron. This is covered by Why was the One Ring such a problem?

Is Elrond strong enough to resist the Ring?

Ultimately, no; Elrond would succumb like everyone else. Tolkien himself says this in Letter 246:

Elrond or Galadriel would have proceeded in the policy now adopted by Sauron: they would have built up an empire with great and absolutely subservient generals and armies and engines of war, until they could challenge Sauron and destroy him by force.

^{_{The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien 246: To Mrs. Eileen Elgar (Draft). September 1963}}

Could the Ring be taken to Aman?

No. This is discussed in the Council of Elrond, and Elrond himself rejects it:

'Then if the Ring cannot be kept from him for ever by strength' said Glorfindel, 'two things only remain for us to attempt: to send it over the Sea, or to destroy it.'

'But Gandalf has revealed to us that we cannot destroy it by any craft that we here possess,' said Elrond. `And they who dwell beyond the Sea would not receive it: for good or ill it belongs to Middle-earth; it is for us who still dwell here to deal with it.'

^{_{Fellowship of the Ring Book 2 Chapter 2: "The Council of Elrond"}}

Answer 2

You're assuming that 'fate shortcuts' can be taken - which in Tolkien's legendarium generally is not the case:

• Can't Eru just prevent Melkor from conspiring to alter creation? (i.e. put him in the penalty box or something?)
• Can't the Valar just gang up on Melkor to begin with and watch over him to make sure he doesn't spoil Arda any further?
• Can't the Valar have a bunch of guards watching the two trees in case, oh, I dunno, some errant spider wanders by? They have plenty of unemployed Maya shuffling about after all, right?
• Can't the Valar just take the Silmarils from Melkor and use them/give them back to Fëanor/destroy them?
• Can't the Noldor just multiply enough to kick Melkor's ass? "Come on, Darling, I know you have a headache, but we really have to - remember the oath of Fëanor!"
• Can't Mairon just fly around in his magic bat form for a while and figure out where Nargothrond and/or Gondolin are?
• ...
• Shall I go on?

It's a mythology, they're epic tales, not engineering problems. So, of course not.

Answer 3

The answer to (4) is a resounding no. It was discussed in the Council of Elrond chapter.

But Gandalf has revealed to us that we cannot destroy it by any craft that we here possess,' said Elrond. `And they who dwell beyond the Sea would not receive it: for good or ill it belongs to Middle-earth; it is for us who still dwell here to deal with it.'

The answer to (2) and (3) is yes, the Ring is dangerous even outside Sauron's influence, and no, Elrond is not immune.

In any case Elrond or Galadriel would have proceeded in the policy now adopted by Sauron: they would have built up an empire with great and absolutely subservient generals and armies and engines of war, until they could challenge Sauron and destroy him by force. (Letters)

Even if Elrond was far away from Sauron. In the same Letter, Tolkien describes what Gandalf would have done after vanquishing Sauron forever:

Gandalf as Ring-Lord would have been far worse than Sauron. He would have remained ‘righteous’, but self-righteous. He would have continued to rule and order things for ‘good’, and the benefit of his subjects according to his wisdom (which was and would have remained great).

But more importantly, Sauron's victory was inevitable with or without the Ring. So merely hiding the Ring, or taking it to Valinor, would not have helped.

Answer 4

If the ring is destroyed, then so is Sauron. So even if he cant get to it, he still has power, and a huge orc army. The ring is just a way to ensure his victory.

Answer 5

Eru isn't going to get involved, Eru has only interacted with the world 2-3 times since its creation, and never at the request of a simple Man or Elf. He's not going to step in to do a minor favor for some random people, just because they'd rather not walk to Mordor.

As for the others, do we have any reason to think they wouldn't be tempted by the Ring? The Ring corrupts anyone who encounters it, and the Elves of Valinor have already been proven to be... imperfectly trustworthy. Maiar can clearly be corrupted by it, so maybe Valar would be immune, but maybe not. Aulë, certainly, would likely admire the craftmanship (remember that both Sauron and Saruman were Maiar under Aulë's domain), and we know that he already has had conflicts with other Vala (over the creation of the Dwarves).

And even if the Valar were immune and you could get something as evil as the Ring to Valinor in the first place (again not a guarantee), would the messengers who brought it be tempted by it, or the people tasked with guarding it? Remember, it's not just the journey to Valinor, it's the journey across Valinor and the entire duration of its containment there (that is, all of eternity). The Ring's preservative effects would be especially tempting for the Elves, who are constantly yearning to slow down the world and keep it from changing. Even if you gave it to Manwë and Manwë did turn out to be immune, the Ring famously breeds treachery. It could cause another rebellion of the Elves, or worse, the fall of a Maia or Vala, and thus the creation of a new Sauron or even Morgoth.

Plus, as long as the Ring survives, Sauron survives, so destroying it is better than safely hiding it away. Even if it was safely out of Sauron's reach, he would still be free to devastate Middle-earth. Hardly a satisfactory scenario, given that the whole reason for keeping the Ring away from him is to stop him from devastating Middle-earth.