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In episode 6 of the second season, we saw the fulfillment of a number of predictions made earlier in the series.

There are a number of spoilers involved in this question.

Specifically:

We saw the television footage announcing them as the "ASBO Five" being filmed, as well as the interview with Alisha, that we had seen earlier (season 2, episode 3) in Future Simon's apartment as part of the footage and pictures that Future Simon told Alisha was going to occur. Alisha also reveals to Simon the identity of Future Simon, and their (inevitable?) relationship.

However...

At the end of episode 6, Curtis rewinds time, and they visit "The Big Cheese", at which point we see Curtis punch him. They then end their community service, implying that none of the events of the rewound timeline ever occur (except in Curtis' memory).

In the Christmas Special, we see the gang several months later. We find out that:

They are all poor (except, perhaps, Simon, due to the apartment from Future Simon) with mundane jobs. It seems clear that they never became the "ASBO Five". However, Alisha and Simon are now dating, and Simon knows about Future Simon.

How does this reconcile? Does the end of episode 6 create a paradox with the information Alisha sees in episode 3?

15 Answers 15

8

I thought about this for quite a while: the last episode of Misfits Series 3 did cover some loopholes, but really, the producers allowed the viewers to create their own theories.

When Simon went back and purchased the power of immunity, he became immune to EVERYTHING. Curtis' time/reality alterations don't apply to him, it's almost as if the world changes around him.

I don't believe that future!Simon was ever from the Big Cheese reality, because regardless of how you look at it, Simon was determined to create his relationship with Alisha. He only interfered with the Misfits in order for them to survive.

Really, the show is based around one main singular event per episode along with the series' secondary plot progressing underneath it- we know that they visit Las Vegas, does it matter when?

The Nazi episode is a conundrum. But it does work - Curtis still begins his journey with the power after the event. The Nazi storyline begins with him giving his power away, and when the timeline is fixed, it merely jumps from him to the old man to Kelly - it is linearly correct. The only question left for me is whether it is the same Kelly from the main timeline we see?

4

After watching the season 3 finale, the answer to the question appears to be: poorly.

With the undoing of the "Big Cheese" timeline, the "ASBO Five" are never publicized. The footage never occurs. The timeline that results in Simon traveling back in time included that future Simon bringing back that footage, only the Simon we know does not bring the footage back because it doesn't exist. Paradox.

Similarly, there does not seem to have been any instance where Simon and Alisha visit Las Vegas together. Nathan goes there on his own, but when he gets in trouble, he calls the Community Center back in the UK, and clearly expects Barry... I mean Simon... to be there. There does not seem to be any indication that Alisha and Simon went to Las Vegas together. The picture Simon brings back with him appears to be the picture that Alisha got from future-Simon, yet the Simon who becomes future-Simon only has that picture because it was brought into the past by future-Simon. Paradox.

This ties in with the disregard for apparent paradox we see in some other episodes, particularly episode four of season 3. The old man who buys Kurtis' power changes the timeline so that Kurtis never obtains a power.

  • I think we can assume that Simon and Alisha hung out with Nathan in Las Vegas (before the Season 3 preview that shows Nathan there) for a little while, then Nathan decided to stay. That addresses where that photo came from and why of all cities, Nathan went to Las Vegas. – user1027 Jan 4 '12 at 1:11
4

The Future Simon we see in season 2 is a version from a timeline where the ASBO 5 went public, without being rewound by Curtis. We know this because he had the footage, which he could not have had from Curtis' memory alone.

With every loop, an additional parallel timeline comes into existence, which is not exactly identical to the last ones, even though the causality "Future Simon seduces Past Alisha -> Past Alisha inspires Past Simon to become Super Hoodie" happens in most of them. There must have been a first one where Future Simon never arrived and a last one where Past Simon never travels back.

Season 4 takes place in the timeline we saw develop in season 2 and 3, with all Simons and Alishas now being dead. But the time travel power Simon uses at the end of Season 3 starts a new, parallel timeline where he can save Alisha AND warn her so that her throat doesn't get slit.

Future Simon has the time to make new suits, he doesn't necessarily use the one he inherited from another Future Simon. Maybe this explains why the masked guy at the end of season 1 looked slightly differently (not the same mask).

The Jewish guy who travels back in time uses a different power than Curtis. Seth indicates it's the same, but it works differently than sending just memory, so maybe Seth got confused with at least three different time travel powers out there.

And we have to assume Alisha probably tells Simon about his future self even after Curtis rewinds the ASBO 5 going public sideline within the timeline we see in season 3. She can't keep this from him forever, and doesn't really want to.

3

I am assuming that Simon can time jump in the future and that it is some type of projection of self on a steady time stream.

Episode 6 without the time rewind is what created future Simon. It was the death of all of Simon's friends that is the catalyst of change. Simon wants to travel back in time but he does not want to undo his personal metamorphosis. So he has to make contact with someone from the group and start an alternate timeline that will still result in Simon becoming Super Hoodie.

When he jumps back he has information of things that have already happened. Those things have not been undone when Alisha sees them. Also, I am supposing that Simon lies to Alisha about them having a relationship. IMO that never occurred. Also, I am assuming that Alisha died in the warehouse but Curtis reversed it. Simon just died there as a to seed Alisha. Once again he had to assure that Super Hoodie came into being. If Simon or a facsimile of Simon dies in the warehouse it doesn't matter until he goes back in time.

I don't see any time paradox assuming time is linear and it can be visited as a destination. I say that future Simon visited the past as a destination and because where he came from the time was not altered the data he traveled back with was intact. At the time Alisha viewed it, it was unknown if Present Simon and Alisha would take the bait and do what future Simon needed. Simon had to take the knife for Curtis and Curtis had to rewind time, while still having Alisha primed to set present Simon on a course to become future Simon as we know him.

3

I do think that it is strongly implied that Alisha and Simon are in Las Vagas with Nathan between season 2 and 3 (hence why Simon knows that's where he is and what his plan is with his new powers and the casinos despite missing his call in S03E00).

I also am prepared to accept the notion that when Kelly destroys the Nazi timeline she regains memory of the original timeline, although I feel like that would not be the most logical conclusion. Nevertheless, I still have two major issues with the time loop, one of which is brought up here and one (fairly simple but significant) other.

  1. Simon retains memories of the ASBO Five timeline after return to the initial timeline. My initial thoughts on this were that somehow both Simon and Curtis were involved in the rewind but having rewatched that scene and the subsequent one I do not think this is the case or that it is hinted that Simon might have memory of it. I reject the suggestion his memories of the event are retained because of the power that makes him immune to other powers simply because he doesn't have the power yet at the time and it cannot work retrospectively or various other powers that did work on him in the past would not. The best explanation I can come up with for his memory retention is that Alisha caves and tells him or that he follows her to the flat later and they have more or less the same conversation but those seem like very lazy outs and make the 'previously on' for S02E7 totally irrelevant.

  2. Simon inherits his mask and suit from Future Simon, who in turn takes it into the past. Surely wear and tear must eventually damage the suit beyond repair meaning he would eventually have to source a new one. This alters the timeline creating an alternate loop that differs from the original which, while almost obscenely simple, is in and of itself a time paradox when considering a time loop.

3

SUMMING IT UP:

1- Original timeline. Somewhere along the way, Nathan dies but he doesn't get buried, and they all discover his power of resurrection. The Misfits become famous as the "ASBO Five" not in the way we see on the Season 2 episode, that specific way is "undone" by Curtis. Somewhere along the way Alisha is killed. Simon I learns freestyle, trains himself, acquires the time travel power from Seth and travels back in time in order to save Alisha. The loop begins.

2- Timeline 2. In the past, Simon I adopts the "Superhoodie" persona. The Misfits become famous as the "ASBO Five" not in the way we see on the Season 2 episode, that specific way is "undone" by Curtis. Simon I/Superhoodie I tragically dies. Somewhere along the way Alisha is killed. Simon II realizes Alisha is doomed to die (fate), but he still choses to travel back in time. He learns freestyle, trains himself, acquires the time travel power from Seth and travels back in time in order to love Alisha one more time.

3- Timeline 3. OUR Season 1-3. The presence of Simon II/Superhoodie II literally OVERWRITES Superhoodie I's presence in the past; it's a rule the Misfits Universe has set. For this, see the finale episode of Season 5, when Jess travels forward or back in time. In the past, Simon II adopts the "Superhoodie" persona. He "instills" into Alisha the (wrong) notion that "everything must play out as before" as lesson to Simon III, who will become the third Superhoodie and keep the time-loop going on. He then dies. Alisha dies in the Season 3 finale. Simon III travels back in time and becomes Superhoodie III. The presence of Simon III/Superhoodie III literally OVERWRITES Superhoodie II's presence in the past; it's a rule the Misfits Universe has set. For this, see the finale episode of Season 5, when Jess travels forward or back in time. In this NEW, definitive loop, the "ASBO Five" tape disappears along with Simon II/Superhoodie II and Superhoodie III will "replay" the events without it. This new loop will be slightly different from the one we watched on-screen, but definitive.

I just think Season 4/5 happened in the FOURTH timeline, the one featuring Superhoodie III and the obvious lack of the "ASBO Five" tape.

  • Do you have any sources to back this up? – Monty129 Aug 27 '14 at 10:02
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I still want to know why they (in the current timeline) have not finished community service. Could it be that the paperwork has not been filed? They do keep inadvertently killing the Probation workers.

It could also be that it is true Simon is no longer effected by alternate timelines. But then He still has to go back and rescue the others, in all instances they still remember him doing so. And unless I missed something, He still needs to rescue Alisha and not be shot so he can prevent her from being killed by the ghost.. Unless at some point he saves her and she is not killed (or something of the like)

If he is immune to alternate time lines maybe in the next season everything is corrected.

Except that I hear Simon and Alisha will not be

in season 4.

I like this show but it would seem too many things are left in loose ends.

  • 1
    RE: why they haven't finished community service: they finished it at the end of Season 2. However, at the beginning of Season 3, they got arrested in a stolen car with Rudy, which got them re-sentenced since they were still on probation. – Beofett Jan 4 '12 at 0:38
  • I guess i missed that one.. also i wanted to say when simon dies doesnt he say something about how he can only save alisha this time... i thought then she might die again later but how could he really let that happen? so maybe they don't come back for the new season as rumored because they are both dead :( – Alex Jan 5 '12 at 6:39
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So upon Future Alisha's death, Simon has to travel back in time to make Past Alisha fall in love with the Past Simon, and Future Simon must take a bullet for the Past Alisha so that she can stay alive in the past so that Past Alisha and Past Simon can start their relationship, but Future Simon has to die upon taking that bullet, to push Past Simon's confidence to become that hero in the future. So they are stuck in this time loop of Future Alisha dying -> Future Simon traveling back and creating the relationship in the first place -> and then Future Simon dying -> Past Simon training -> and Future Alisha dying again.

So my theory is: There is a picture of Alisha and Simon in Las Vegas in Future Simon's Apartment, yet in no episode do you see them go to Las Vegas, meaning this is still to happen, but how can that happen if both are dying in an infinite loop? I think, that the whole entire "loop" was a plot to turn Simon into a stronger heroic character and the person that Alisha falls in love with. I think that when Future Simon goes back to take the bullet he is actually wearing a bulletproof vest or has the power of immortality and he PRETENDS to die. So Past Alisha tells Past Simon about how he has to take a bullet for her in the future and he trains and becomes a brave person. BUT actually Past Alisha knows that Future Simon is secretly alive and they create a plan, in which the future Alisha also pretends to die, therefore making the Past Simon go to the Past as a hero. As soon as Past Simon goes back in time, Alisha and Future Simon pop out of their hiding places, and the paradox is gone. They get to live a wonderful life with each other, without either of them dying and Go to Las Vegas and rescue Nathan from the prison, so in theory the entire gang will be back together in season 5 (it was stated that Alisha and Simon will not appear in season 4).*

2

The way I look at it, after long thought and consideration, is this. Pay attention to the what future Simon did and what he interfered in. The first thing Nathan is no more because he told them about Nathan being alive. He saved Nathan first. Then he saved Curtis from the crazy shape-shifter. If Nathan and Curtis are gone do you really think Alisha would've gone by herself or with Simon to save Kelly? (Think of what her character was then.) I don't think so.

With that being said Alisha and Simon are left. With that being said Alisha has no choice but to get to know Simon. She ends up falling for him because, unlike everyone else, Simon speaks his mind; he doesn't say stuff other people do. (I'm referring to the 'I think its difficult for beautiful people' quote.) She ends up falling for him after getting to know him as a person and dies the same way as we saw. He, at that point, has no one left; he gets the powers and goes back in time.

He assures that no one would know who he was by getting the immunity power (because Kelly can read his mind) he goes back and basically saves everyone and has Alisha still fall in love with him thus starting the loop. The loop is bigger than Simon and Alisha is; it's everyone, but the focus on the show was Simon and Alisha. (I cant say this is definite but after thinking and if I would've written it this is how i would've done it.)

2

I think this can still work, albeit sloppily. There's no reason why the ASBO 5 still can't happen, cause all Curtis changed was the milk guy sending in the video and becoming a serial killer. If probation worker #3 still sells them out to the press, or it gets out another way, the could have still dealt with the reporters but then turned down the publicists offer to be rich and famous (Curtis would have seen the future and rejected it, Alisha would have sided with Simon if Curtis was also on his side, and Kelly and Nathan would have caved). All the other paradoxes can be explained through between season events that we aren't shown, such as a vacation with Alisha, Simon, Nathan, and the girl who has the baby to Las Vegas. Also, I don't think the guy who traveled back in time to kill Hitler used Curtis's power, I think he had a different time travel power altogether. I think Curtis's power got lost when the dealer's lizard died (he said he put the power in the lizard), and Kelly gave the dealer the time travel power when she returned to the regular time line. So yeah, it's kind of convoluted, but not totally impossible.

2

NOW think about it like this: there was a DIFFERENT time line where there was no such thing as futureSimon's, Alisha fell in love with Simon naturally and different events happen ALLtogether, and eventually the gang and Alisha dies. SimonONE travels back in time to restore the balance (but SimonONE has never had the IDEA that he HAS to go back and save her he just does), SIMON-ONe is now back in the past he changes it. He dies, and Alisha tells Simon about the futureSimon-One, and so the paradox begins FROM THERE where Simon HAS THE IDEA HE HAS TO save her. So the loop happens a few more times every time it's different but it all has the same jist to it.

Until we get to the one that we see in the show. The future Simon WE SEE in season 2, is from a loop where he and Alisha HAVE BEEN to Vegas. He is a future Simon who knows that he HAS TO SAVE HER, and that she WILL fall in love with Simon-its happened so many times already. He is A FUTURE SIMON who stop her from dying from the gamer guy, whereby the other versions of him may have had to stop her death from other things. And the loop goes on infinitely with Simon always knowing his destiny somehow and travelling back. The simon we see at the end of season 3 who travels back in time after Alisha is killed by the ghost now knows that he has to change ANOTHER THING to ensure she survives. It goes on until the past has been altered to perfection so that everyone lives.

Can i just say that Alisha was never meant to tell the Simon we see that superhoodie is him!! This was an important warning needed to STOP the paradox!

2

I believe future Simon is a little older than he leads on. Even older than the audience realizes. His statement to Alisha that "there are things that need to happen" leads me to believe he's rewound time several times at various times to 'get it right' so-to-speak. The pix on the wall cover timelines extinct because of rewinding - Vegas may be one of them. Like Curtis, he's immune to the effects of the time jumps. (he didn't need the extra power of immunity for that). I do not think that his final save was neither "seen" nor avoidable because he's not able to rewind time.

** just saw simon's death episode and have to recant part of my above statement... Keeping with the BBC theory that there are fixed moments in time that must happen (the world wars, certain musicians, poets and politicians existences etc.) then:

I believe future Simon is a little older than he leads on. Even older than the audience realizes. His statement to Alisha that "there are things that need to happen" leads me to believe he's rewound time several times at various times to 'get it right' so-to-speak. The pix on the wall cover timelines extinct because of rewinding - Vegas may be one of them. Like Curtis, he's immune to the effects of the time jumps. (he didn't need the extra power of immunity for that). there is only one simon. his death, to me, proves that in itself. he does cross over his own timeline but only inasmuch to keep the time line HE knows to be the "correct timeline" from already living it. when things go awry, he "fixes" the timeline to proceed forward to his enviable death. that's also why tere are so many photos of the crew that we do not recognise. the audience is not shown those tmelines, just the "correct" or main one.

1

I think the intention was to have Simon and Alisha be the eternal lovers forever replaying the same scenario over and over again in a time loop. One thing not mentioned by some other posters was the influence of the comic book kid...remember that, at the very least, he influenced reality so that Simon keep the superhoodie outfit against Alisha's wishes. could he have further influenced Simon and Alisha's fates? That could also track with why Simon would not try to change the future and instead be adamant about everything being as it was.

As an aside I don't think the immunity power could account for the ASBO 5 interview paradox because if Simon did become immune to Curtis' timeline changes then they would all be dead (except nathan) from Tony the probation worker's berserker attack in episode 1.

1

The fact is, Alisha is meant to die. Thats why she dies In almost every timeline. Its her destiny to die. But Simon loves her so much that every time she dies, he goes back. The warehouse scene where future Simon saves her already happened, its just that WE are seeing it for the first time. Thats why Alisha and past Simon always argue about him being super hoodie, she says 'you already saved me!'. Then later she gets her throat cut and he goes back again to save her from that. Its just a reacurring thing, which is why when past Simon goes back, the gang is talking and Curtis says "so he's just gonna keep on saving her?" And that girl(forgot her name) says "its Fu king romantic" or something like that.

1

Simon will go back in time. So everything he did originally but rather than killing himself to save Alisha he will survive. Hide himself away then return the Alisha where he will tell her to fake her death. Then Simon 2 will return to save Alisha again but Alisha 1 and Simon 1 will be alive. Simon 2 will eventually figure out what happened and do the exact same thing. This will cause all future versions of Simon and Alisha to survive and live happily ever after. This will be a part of the movie and Nathan will be reunited with the original gang.

protected by Wad Cheber Jan 14 '16 at 3:13

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